E85 specific oil

[Reaper]

There are many overblown oil threads on the internet already and on this forum. But no one with the fa20 seems to really be discussing e85s affects on oil. Or at least i cant find it.
E85 consumes detergents and drastically reduces the oil change interval so its important to look at the tbn and a bunch of other stuff im not well versed in.

the following is internet hearsay;

Ive heard motul 300v doesnt deal with the acid well but 8100 xlite does.

Trd by motul is suposedly amazing in general but only has a tbn of around 7(pretty low add pack, but there are other factors that make oil good/bad for e85 im still a noob about)

Amsoil dominator and redline seem to work well but im pretty sure they are low on moly.

Mobile1s detergents are consumed quickly so mobile recomends mobile turbo diesel instead.

I have a gm fleet vehicle that has to have its oil changed every 2500 miles when its on e85 as per contract!

Local gtr guys tell me they use a similar oil change interval and have posted alot of uoa's.

Im going to try rotella turbo diesel oil on e85 and do a blackstone uoa after 2000miles and ill post it to this thread.

Anyone else have a uoa on e85?

[Carlitoz3]

Keep us posted.
Going e85 once I get my headers.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Reaper

There are many overblown oil threads on the internet already and on this forum. But no one with the fa20 seems to really be discussing e85s affects on oil. Or at least i cant find it.
E85 consumes detergents and drastically reduces the oil change interval so its important to look at the tbn and a bunch of other stuff im not well versed in.

the following is internet hearsay;

Ive heard motul 300v doesnt deal with the acid well but 8100 xlite does.

I wonder why? Both oils have pretty good detergent/dispersant packs with X-lite having much more calcium and 300v having less calcium but more magnesium, IIRC. You would need to do several uoa's on similar cars under similar driving condtions to verify this. Those uoa's would also need to include a Total Acid Number which people rarely do.

Trd by motul is suposedly amazing in general but only has a tbn of around 7(pretty low add pack, but there are other factors that make oil good/bad for e85 im still a noob about)

This oil is available in New Zealand, and I'm not sure where else, and the TBN is 6.3. A "low add pack" doesn't necessarily correlate with a low TBN. A low TBN also doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the oil change interval, but it depends on the rate of TBN depletion.

Amsoil dominator and redline seem to work well but im pretty sure they are low on moly.

Information fail. Dominator and Red Line both have some of the highest moly available. Although, I do not see how a friction modifier ties in with E85 anyway.

Mobile1s detergents are consumed quickly so mobile recomends mobile turbo diesel instead.

The detergents aren't really consumed quickly, but Mobil1 does recommend TDT in E85 applications.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Oil_Best_for_Engines_Using_E85_Fuel.aspx

But, I would not use 5W40 on stock internals. Instead, some of the regular thinner Mobil1 oils actually have a similar detergent/dispersant package as TDT. Again, lower levels of calcium and boosted magnesium.

I have a gm fleet vehicle that has to have its oil changed every 2500 miles when its on e85 as per contract!

Local gtr guys tell me they use a similar oil change interval and have posted alot of uoa's.

I believe this. I've seen E85 STI uoa's on Rotella T6 and the oil was pretty trashed in 4k miles. OTOH, I've seen excellent uoa's on protuned WRX's and STI's the results were excellent.

Im going to try rotella turbo diesel oil on e85 and do a blackstone uoa after 2000miles and ill post it to this thread.

Again, I would not run straight TDT on stock internals. That oil is even thicker than Rotella T6 in all temps. You need to look up some voa's on various oils and find one with a similar detergent/dispersant package.

Anyone else have a uoa on e85?

That's my two cents. Frequent oil changes are your friend.

-Dennis

[Dipstik-sportech]

Brad Penn green oil that's all I will be using. It's designed for e85 and it's fairly cheap

The Frozen North

[taylork057]

yep, just have to change your oil frequently. Also letting it warm up all the way helps a lot. Cold starts and shut offs are your worst enemy.

[Reaper]

@bluesubie thanks for that. I was worried no one with any knowledge was going to comment on this thread and I am very behind on oil knowledge. My comment on Motul 300v was because ive read some people dislike ester based oils with E85 but no one could tell me why. Seemed like internet BS. I was leaning towards rotella or TDT but i didnt realize it doesnt come in a weight that works with our clearances. Though interestingly the FA20DIT uses 5w-30 and subaru recomends using a higher weight oil in our fa20's when used under harsh conditions. So I think im leaning towards motul 8100 5w-30 (x-lite or x-cess? i need to understand tbn and calcium more to make a descision) but it's still costly. Can you think of anything else that might be more wallet friendly to change more often?

[Reaper]

@Dipstik-sportech
Brad penn specifically says DO NOT use e85 with their oils it will cause gumming

http://penngrade1.com/CMSFiles/File/..._BRAD_PENN.pdf

[Dipstik-sportech]

Hmmmm. Maybe I should tell my buddies that run it

The Frozen North

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Reaper

@bluesubie thanks for that. I was worried no one with any knowledge was going to comment on this thread and I am very behind on oil knowledge. My comment on Motul 300v was because ive read some people dislike ester based oils with E85 but no one could tell me why. Seemed like internet BS. I was leaning towards rotella or TDT but i didnt realize it doesnt come in a weight that works with our clearances. Though interestingly the FA20DIT uses 5w-30 and subaru recomends using a higher weight oil in our fa20's when used under harsh conditions. So I think im leaning towards motul 8100 5w-30 (x-lite or x-cess? i need to understand tbn and calcium more to make a descision) but it's still costly. Can you think of anything else that might be more wallet friendly to change more often?

Rotella does come in a semi-synthetic 10W-30, although that could still be too thick on stock internals.

Between those two Motul oils, X-Lite 0W-30 is a very thick 30 grade oil, with a high HTHS so it would act more like a 40 grade oil. It does have lots of calcium, but I wouldn't run it because it's thick. X-cess is only 5W-40. X-clean is a 5W-30 with lower phosphorus levels to be cat friendly, but it's also a thick oil. Eco-nergy is a thin 30 grade, but has slightly higher ZDDP levels since it meets the older API SL spec.

The more robust oils will be the ester based race oils (Dominator, 300V, and Red Line) and I would actually just reach out to the manufacturers to see what they say about E85.

Here's a Mobil1 0W-20 virgin oil analysis that shows the lower calcium levels and boosted levels of magnesium (like Rotella or M1 TDT):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243763

And here's a TDT voa (although it's from 2010):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939477

I'm really surprised that M1 recommends TDT in applications that call for 5W-20. I believe that some of their 20 and 30 grades were reformulated to include more magnesium when the oil switched to API SN and I do not know if that "Ask Mobil" question was before or after the reformulation.

I would probably go with 300V or Red Line 0W-20 unless you can find more evidence of problems running ester based oils with E85 (Red Line is very good at responding to emails). Or for a daily driver, I would probably just go with whatever 0W-20 or 5W-20 that is easily available (like Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum or Mobil1).

-Dennis

[Reaper]

Amsoil dominator comes in a 0w20 and isnt horribly expensive if bought at wholesale.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Amsoil dominator comes in a 0w20 and isnt horribly expensive if bought at wholesale.

Actually, 5W-20. Although, the only difference is that the cold cranking test on a 0W is performed at -35C and a 5W is performed at 30C.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...code=RD20QT-EA

It's a fairly thick 5W-20 at 8.9 cst's at 100C (30 grades start at 9.3) and it has an HTHS of 3.0 which is the same as many 30 grades. And regarding base stocks, most oils these days are a blend of 2-3 base stocks so I wouldn't get too hung up on that. There's a Tech Dept. phone number at the very bottom of Amsoil's web site if you want to give them a ring.

It also has more ZDDP than 300V or Red Line.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1247342

-Dennis

[whitefrs]

so whats the best oil lol

I'm running 300v 5w-30

[bluesubie]

There is no one best oil, IMO. Although I would switch to 300V 0W-20. The 5W-30 has a high HTHS and will behave like a 40 grade oil.
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...pdf?1339171623

I know there's a thread with a bunch of uoa's here, but I don't recall if there's one on E85.

-Dennis

[whitefrs]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

There is no one best oil, IMO. Although I would switch to 300V 0W-20. The 5W-30 has a high HTHS and will behave like a 40 grade oil.
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...pdf?1339171623

I know there's a thread with a bunch of uoa's here, but I don't recall if there's one on E85.

-Dennis

I heard 5w-30 is better for boosted cars


I love boost!!!!!!