CSG and RCE tag-team suspension Q&A thread! Ask us anything!

[fooddude]

Yes, I meant your subjective opinions and your experiences for specific instances, including the pros and cons. In other words - recommendations ...maybe something that will hold up all day at the track (or at least as most it can), while still being DD'able.

[Racecomp Engineering]

What kind of tires?

- Andy

[solidONE]

Have any of you heard about people installing eccentric bolts on the rear lower arms to gain negative camber? While it doesn't seem to be ideal, or even a very good idea, it sure sounds cost effective.

I believe I read on the board somewhere that people have installed the bolts spindle side of the lower rear arm to get a bit of negative camber.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Have any of you heard about people installing eccentric bolts on the rear lower arms to gain negative camber? While it doesn't seem to be ideal, or even a very good idea, it sure sounds cost effective.

I believe I read on the board somewhere that people have installed the bolts spindle side of the lower rear arm to get a bit of negative camber.

I have them and didn't get enough camber adjustment to fix my alignment when lowered. Save your money/time and just get adjustable LCA's.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Malt

I have them and didn't get enough camber adjustment to fix my alignment when lowered. Save your money/time and just get adjustable LCA's.

How may degrees were you able to get and which bolt did you use? And would you trust them under tracking/'high load performance' situations. It's not for a lowered car, BTW.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by solidONE

How may degrees were you able to get and which bolt did you use? And would you trust them under tracking/'high load performance' situations.

H&R camber bolts. Exactly 0.1 degree of adjustment was all they were able to get. There maybe more adjustablity there but he said he was running into issues with toe. I'm running T2's with raceseng tophats in the rear. I'm lowered maybe an inch to and inch and a half, not really sure how much lower but I've got almost two finger widths between the tire and the top of the rear fender.

Speaking of that, anyone know how far a BRZ sits off the ground when measured from the rear jacking point on stock tires and stock suspension?

I had previously purchased the whiteline upper ecentric bushing kit and was quoted 6 hours for the install, which was more than I wanted to pay since the labor alone would pay for a set of adjustable LCA's, so those are sitting in my office. I thought that toe arms wouldn't be needed for that modest of a lower to help with the toe issues, but after paying $80 for an alignment, $50 for the bolts, and $130 for the install (yes I know I could of done it myself and would of if I wasn't lazy) and they didn't even adjust the front camber like I wanted, I wasn't very happy. I haven't taken it to a different shop yet but I probably will just to be certain it wasn't just a case of someone not wanting to or not having the time to do the alignment right. It's quite possible they were right and there isn't any more camber adjustment to be had. Either way I felt like I threw $270 out the window. That being said, the guys at the shop were super nice.

As for tracking with them, I don't see why it would be any different than using eccentric bolts on the front. I imagine if they are installed properly they shouldn't slip.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Malt

H&R camber bolts. Exactly 0.1 degree of adjustment was all they were able to get. There maybe more adjustablity there but he said he was running into issues with toe. I'm running T2's with raceseng tophats in the rear. I'm lowered maybe an inch to and inch and a half, not really sure how much lower but I've got almost two finger widths between the tire and the top of the rear fender.

Speaking of that, anyone know how far a BRZ sits off the ground when measured from the rear jacking point on stock tires and stock suspension?

I thought that toe arms wouldn't be needed for that modest lower but I after paying $125 for an alignment, ~$60 for the bolts, and ~$100 for the install (yes I know I could of done it myself and would of if I wasn't lazy) and they didn't even adjust the front camber like I wanted, I wasn't very happy. I haven't taken it to a different shop yet but I probably will just to be certain it wasn't just a case of someone not wanting to take the time to do the alignment right. Either way I felt like I threw $300 out the window.

As for tracking with them, I don't see why it would be any different than using eccentric bolts on the front. I imagine if they are installed properly they shouldn't slip.

Well that sux.

The reason why they may rotate is because of where they are connected. The angle of the spindle will change relative to the control arm when the suspension does it's thing. Compress and decompress. It is effectively a hinged connection out back vs the strut and spindle connection that stays in the same position up front.

What is the diameter of that bolt BTW?

[Malt]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Well that sux.

The reason why they may rotate is because of where they are connected. The angle of the spindle will change relative to the control arm when the suspension does it's thing. Compress and decompress. It is effectively a hinged connection out back vs the strut and spindle connection that stays in the same position up front.

What is the diameter of that bolt BTW?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain its installed on the inner mount, not at the spindle. No idea on the diameter since I didn't order it. I let the shop order and install it. Supposedly its the same one thats available on the perrin site. TC112 is the part number

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...15&postcount=6

For the record, no grinding was done or necessary according to the shop.

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

What kind of tires?

- Andy

245 width... I plan on trying PSS, D2 and RS3 and switching off as time goes by; all for DD. Maybe try a Bridgestone flavor too (RE11 or other..idk which are the good ones). Don't really have money currently for a track-day-only extra set of wheels/tires; though that would be nice and maybe so in the future.

[cycleboy]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Toe will be slightly affected front and rear. You'll want an alignment after installing the springs.

You don't necessarily need to add anything to the springs. However....

For the front, the "OEM" camber bolts are like 10 bucks and make a huge difference. I think every car should have them and they should have come with them from the factory. It lets you get a little more camber up front and even it out. You'd be happier with close to -1 degrees or a little more for DD. Very noticeable difference in handling. Everyone just really should do this, even without adding springs.

For the rear, you have 3 options. LCAs, rear whiteline camber bushings, and nothing.

LCAs are more expensive but easy to install and adjust.

The rear camber bushings are cheaper but a pain to install and a bigger pain to adjust. They do also add a slight performance benefit in that it's a firmer bushing.

Doing nothing is actually not a bad option as you'll end up approximately where you need to be with our mild drop RCE Yellows. Any more drop and you'd probably want to do something.

I'm anal and like things to be "perfect" and equal side-to-side, so I'd probably do something. But that doesn't mean you need to.

- Andy

Thanks for this Andy, so now I have a bit of a follow on question.

What would be the ideal alignment specs for a car lowered on Yellows, 90-95% DD, few times a year on a track or auto-x, 17X8.5 +38, 245/40-17's?

And, can I achieve this without any additional parts, or should I at least add OEM bolts? How about for the rear? (I think you've kind of answered this above, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what's a good spec and how to make that happen.)

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by cycleboy

Thanks for this Andy, so now I have a bit of a follow on question.

What would be the ideal alignment specs for a car lowered on Yellows, 90-95% DD, few times a year on a track or auto-x, 17X8.5 +38, 245/40-17's?

And, can I achieve this without any additional parts, or should I at least add OEM bolts? How about for the rear? (I think you've kind of answered this above, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what's a good spec and how to make that happen.)

I'd say get the OEM bolts and max them out evenly. Should be around -1.5 or so which is perfect for a DD fun car. You'd have the option of doing nothing in the rear and you'd end up around -1.8 to -2.0 and that would be fine. Alternatively, get some rear LCAs and even it out at -1.8 and enjoy.

0 toe front, hair of toe-in for the rear.

- Andy

[Cjymiller]

Gents, how does spring pre-load factor into ride quality?

[solidONE]

It seems for car applications little or no preload is added. Come to think of it... the stock setup has preload as evidenced by the need for spring compressors to install and remove.

[wparsons]

Not really a direct answer, but more caster will let you run less static camber BUT will also make steering input less reactive for small inputs. It's all a balance with the whole setup. Adding a bit more caster might mean you can run less (or no) toe in while still feeling stable in a straight line, but it might dull the input too much for your taste.