PST vs DSS carbon driveshafts, anyone compare? - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

SubieNate · 02-28-2014, 07:27 PM

In torsion stress is actually highest in a helical pattern running 45* to the shaft if I recall correctly.

Additionally, you can't really compare just by the outer wrap. Some companies do a simple hoop (perpendicular to the shaft) layer just to protect from impacts/debris. It's the easiest and quickest way to lay down a continuous layer of fiber.

All fiber perpendicular would be bad. The shaft would have zero strength either longitudinally or honestly, even in tension. Doing that would put all of the load into the matrix, which would shear apart at a very low level of strength. Even in a situation where 90% of the load is in a certain direction, you need some fiber running at an angle to that (usually 45*) to both hold the main load bearing fibers in place and make sure the load is shared as equally as possible by all of the fiber present.

Things like fishing rods (which are likely pulltruded which is another ballgame) are one of the few applications where all or nearly all fiber is placed in one orientation. Even a driveshaft has a minimum of two (+-45*).

Cheers
Nathan

RehabJeff86 · 02-28-2014, 08:18 PM

Unfortunately theres no formal testing done to back my statement, its solely my opinion when i was deciding between PST vs DSS, i went for PST cuz it has 45 degree angled CF weaving which i think its better and stronger. Does DSS hv 45 degree weaving layered under? That i dunno. Otherwise i think both DS perform equally well

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkfQ

mitosis · 02-28-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

I went for PST cuz it has 45 degree angled CF weaving which I think is better and stronger.

Cool, thanks for getting back to us

Where did you find out about the 45 degree weave? I can't find anything on the PST website about that. I agree that such a thing sounds like a good idea.

kiichiro · 02-28-2014, 11:12 PM

Weave and lay up are very different
Layup matters much more in cf construction

Where are each shafts made?
By whom? By hand?

What is the qa process and qc on each product!

Where are stress test data?
I got money but need answers before I go plopping Down 1000 for a shaft

Still no clue which one is better

Captain Snooze · 02-28-2014, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiichiro

Still no clue which one is better

Perhaps,in the grand scheme of carbon fibre drive shafts, they are both equally good.

I think this shaft looks the best. That is,purely in an aesthetic non-functional way. Would be even better if the weave had custom colour options. "Yeah bro,that gold and green weaves matches my baseball cap,

"

kiichiro · 02-28-2014, 11:25 PM

Wasn't there a difference how each shaft is bonded to the yoke? They simply can't be constructed the same, or identical

Can each vendor chime in with cutaways or something?

That Pic looks like it's carbon bonded to aluminum is that the same on both shafts ?

Deathreaper · 03-01-2014, 02:42 AM

I have a pst driveshaft and can confirm that the weave is not perpendicular. The outer layer is (for the final coating and protection) but the inner weave is done at approximately 45' (couldn't measure). You can subtly see the inner weaves imprint with the eye but not with a camera.

OICU812 · 03-01-2014, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathreaper

I have a pst driveshaft and can confirm that the weave is not perpendicular. The outer layer is (for the final coating and protection) but the inner weave is done at approximately 45' (couldn't measure). You can subtly see the inner weaves imprint with the eye but not with a camera.

Have you taken your car upwards of 140km/hr -- 85+ mph and notice any vibes or strange sounds/coustics at all??

RehabJeff86 · 03-01-2014, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitosis

Cool, thanks for getting back to us

Where did you find out about the 45 degree weave? I can't find anything on the PST website about that. I agree that such a thing sounds like a good idea.

Jason @ DSG Performance told me and here is a pic when i got it, same weaving as the HKS Kansai CF DS which will be available soon, list price is 120,000 Yen like 1200 USD

Name: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1393660879.220838.jpg
Views: 1072
Size: 250.2 KB

Name: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1393660879.220838.jpg
Views: 1072
Size: 250.2 KB

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkfQ

OICU812 · 03-01-2014, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Jason @ DSG Performance told me and here is a pic when i got it, same weaving as the HKS Kansai CF DS which will be available soon, list price is 120,000 Yen like 1200 USD

Attachment 68823

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkfQ

That looks pretty good. Any idea on how the PST shaft is balanced? I know DSS has the small weight tabs visible on outside but I've never had clarification on how pst shafts are in fact balanced...

I sent u pm btw.

kiichiro · 03-02-2014, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OICU812

That looks pretty good. Any idea on how the PST shaft is balanced? I know DSS has the small weight tabs visible on outside but I've never had clarification on how pst shafts are in fact balanced...

I sent u pm btw.

Cha Ching

cdrazic93 · 06-15-2014, 02:56 AM

Any updates with data between these two shafts?

evan · 06-15-2014, 04:10 PM

I have a DSS shaft. No complaints.

02-28-2014, 08:18 PM	#16
RehabJeff86 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: 2013 WhiteOut FR-S Location: Dublin,CA Posts: 969 Thanks: 899 Thanked 492 Times in 306 Posts Mentioned: 67 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	Unfortunately theres no formal testing done to back my statement, its solely my opinion when i was deciding between PST vs DSS, i went for PST cuz it has 45 degree angled CF weaving which i think its better and stronger. Does DSS hv 45 degree weaving layered under? That i dunno. Otherwise i think both DS perform equally well Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkfQ __________________ 2013 Scion FR-S whiteout 2012 Porsche Panamera S carbon grey 2008 Range Rover Sport SS black - sold 2004 BMW M3 alpine wies - sold

02-28-2014, 11:12 PM	#18
kiichiro corolla specs/GTR looks Join Date: May 2013 Drives: ooh oooh pretty tail lights Location: slower than a accord V6 Posts: 490 Thanks: 229 Thanked 113 Times in 79 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Weave and lay up are very different Layup matters much more in cf construction Where are each shafts made? By whom? By hand? What is the qa process and qc on each product! Where are stress test data? I got money but need answers before I go plopping Down 1000 for a shaft Still no clue which one is better __________________ SOLD THEM BOTH Hers: 2007 987S Mine: 2012 991S That was fun, thanks Hachi

02-28-2014, 11:25 PM	#20
kiichiro corolla specs/GTR looks Join Date: May 2013 Drives: ooh oooh pretty tail lights Location: slower than a accord V6 Posts: 490 Thanks: 229 Thanked 113 Times in 79 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Wasn't there a difference how each shaft is bonded to the yoke? They simply can't be constructed the same, or identical Can each vendor chime in with cutaways or something? That Pic looks like it's carbon bonded to aluminum is that the same on both shafts ? __________________ SOLD THEM BOTH Hers: 2007 987S Mine: 2012 991S That was fun, thanks Hachi

06-15-2014, 02:56 AM	#26
cdrazic93 Junior Join Date: Aug 2013 Drives: a car Location: Probably at school Posts: 4,341 Thanks: 3,184 Thanked 2,512 Times in 1,502 Posts Mentioned: 20 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Any updates with data between these two shafts? __________________ "Ah! What music! They could have never imagined, those pioneers who invented the automobile, that it would posses us like this, our imaginations, our dreams. Men love women, but even more than that, men love CARS!"-Lord Hesketh

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02-28-2014, 07:27 PM	#15
SubieNate Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 FR-S Ultramarine Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 959 Thanks: 288 Thanked 560 Times in 269 Posts Mentioned: 6 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	In torsion stress is actually highest in a helical pattern running 45* to the shaft if I recall correctly. Additionally, you can't really compare just by the outer wrap. Some companies do a simple hoop (perpendicular to the shaft) layer just to protect from impacts/debris. It's the easiest and quickest way to lay down a continuous layer of fiber. All fiber perpendicular would be bad. The shaft would have zero strength either longitudinally or honestly, even in tension. Doing that would put all of the load into the matrix, which would shear apart at a very low level of strength. Even in a situation where 90% of the load is in a certain direction, you need some fiber running at an angle to that (usually 45) to both hold the main load bearing fibers in place and make sure the load is shared as equally as possible by all of the fiber present. Things like fishing rods (which are likely pulltruded which is another ballgame) are one of the few applications where all or nearly all fiber is placed in one orientation. Even a driveshaft has a minimum of two (+-45). Cheers Nathan

03-01-2014, 02:42 AM	#21
Deathreaper Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Drives: 2013 Scion FRS Location: Ottawa Posts: 66 Thanks: 28 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have a pst driveshaft and can confirm that the weave is not perpendicular. The outer layer is (for the final coating and protection) but the inner weave is done at approximately 45' (couldn't measure). You can subtly see the inner weaves imprint with the eye but not with a camera.

06-15-2014, 04:10 PM	#27
evan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Drives: fr-s Location: pdx Posts: 546 Thanks: 396 Thanked 202 Times in 129 Posts Mentioned: 30 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I have a DSS shaft. No complaints.

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