Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[kiichiro]

It's a lot cheaper to run than a 911

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

This is a great little sports car.. You must of thought so too at some time.... Or why Would you have bought one?

Oh I love if, but from the day I drove it off the lot it always felt like a big GT, not a small car. I owned a used '80s M6 and my mother owned a little 2002 BMW, this car feels a lot more like the "big" GT 80's 6 series.


Its cool, but sometimes I miss the maneuverability. Just for example to relate, its real obvious in a crowded parking lot that this isn't a small car. Even more so on skinny hilly backcountry semi-offroad drives.




But its amazing how well it performs on the interstate compared to something like a first gen Miata.


I think part of the sales problem is it sits at a niche' that the auto world hasn't seen much of, and the low center of gravity that allows good handling with a fairly comfortable ride I don't think its really been done before. Its a bit of a platypus.


To be blunt most morons don't appreciate the uniqueness.

[Hachiroku14]

...how bout they find a fix for the chirping first before they even think of selling more.

[DRACHENV6]

http://articles.sae.org/11744/

Imagine an FRS/BRZ with this.

[regal]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

http://articles.sae.org/11744/

Imagine an FRS/BRZ with this.

I wonder, hit a deer and the car is totaled? Don't know if its worth it to save 100 lbs.

[Stigmaru]

I don't understand why so many ppl dislike the monogram series or wishing this car gets discontinued. It's really selfish and an idiotic thing to say. If you don't like future variants or refreshes then you will always have the original tucked up in your garage or out burning rubber somewhere. Why would you wish for the car and it's companies to fail just so you can feel special about being the exclusive few (relatively) to own the car or so you don't have to feel any regret you didn't have that many choices when you bought yours. It's really ungrateful and self serving.

If you don't like the new ones then you still have the original. Stop hoping something negative will happen to others and the futures of this car.

Personally I'm still waiting on weight improvements. I drove around my Friend's BRZ and felt it was a bit heavier than what I wanted it to be. There wasn't much weight difference of what i had hoped between it and my wrx for me to jump up and down about.

[LadyFRZ]

Originally Posted by regal

To be blunt most morons don't appreciate the uniqueness.

This is pretty much what it boils down to.
People don't want a driver's car, people want creature comforts where they can text and drive all they want. They want the car to drive for them.
To me it's actually quite depressing. I use to baby an '88 Celica, NOTHING worked (AC, power window, power roof) but the engine seemed bulletproof. I would just take it out on drives and I would have a blast, that's where I started in becoming a car enthusiast. I found a joy in driving, and it's a shame that such a minority still wants that in a car.


Good on Toyota/Subaru for bringing back the joy in driving, hope this platform stays.
Even though there isn't a turbo anyways, that's not what this car was about. If you wanted fast/straight line speed, go get a mustang.

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by regal

This is not a low weight RWD car, an Elise weighs under 2k lbs a first gen Miata a little more. This car feels big and heavy to me and others coming from lightweight cars.


This is a light weight GT car. Its an odd niche' and with low power (as a GT) sales are bound to dry up. IMHO if they don't turbo it will be killed along with Scion in a few years. The chassis will re-appear in some completely different form (sedan, supra-gt, muscle coupe, etc.) to pay capital depreciation.

I get where you're coming from: the FT86 feels noticeably heavier than my NB Miata did (~2300 pounds).

But it's relative. By today's standards (cars currently in production), the FT86 is lightweight, especially for a reasonably priced, RWD, 4 seat daily driver. Also, it's lighter or as light as some classic Japanese sports cars from long ago (RX7, 2nd gen MR2, etc).

Originally Posted by regal

Oh I love if, but from the day I drove it off the lot it always felt like a big GT, not a small car. I owned a used '80s M6 and my mother owned a little 2002 BMW, this car feels a lot more like the "big" GT 80's 6 series.


Its cool, but sometimes I miss the maneuverability. Just for example to relate, its real obvious in a crowded parking lot that this isn't a small car. Even more so on skinny hilly backcountry semi-offroad drives.




But its amazing how well it performs on the interstate compared to something like a first gen Miata.


I think part of the sales problem is it sits at a niche' that the auto world hasn't seen much of, and the low center of gravity that allows good handling with a fairly comfortable ride I don't think its really been done before. Its a bit of a platypus.


To be blunt most morons don't appreciate the uniqueness.

The FT86 makes compromises to be livable and doesn't quite have the raw, singularity of purpose that some old traditional sports cars had (and the Ariel Atom and Cateram still have). But IMO, it has enough emphasis on low weight, low CoG, and driver involvement (shifter, steering, pedal location, road feel, tossability, responsiveness) to be called a sports car.

And semantics aside, we're on the same page. The FT86 is small and raw enough to turn off most people, and large enough to turn off some purists. Such is the challenge for the jack-of-all-trades daily-driver sports car.

[zenki_levin]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

having to downshift to pass on the highways

I see lots of people complaining about this on other sites. What's the point of owning a drivers car when you can't be arsed to shift and actually drive the thing.

[JDMenrique]

Originally Posted by jenzan

"A senior Toyota official has revealed that poor sales of the GT 86 sports car meant that additional variants, such as the much-hyped convertible and a possible performance version, are likely to be ruled out.

Yea, this article just lost its credibility for me. I haven't read through all these pages but the convertible was never "hyped" and has been shot down by Toyota over and over again.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Deslock

I get where you're coming from: the FT86 feels noticeably heavier than my NB Miata did (~2300 pounds).

But it's relative. By today's standards (cars currently in production), the FT86 is lightweight, especially for a reasonably priced, RWD, 4 seat daily driver. Also, it's lighter or as light as some classic Japanese sports cars from long ago (RX7, 2nd gen MR2, etc).



The FT86 makes compromises to be livable and doesn't quite have the raw, singularity of purpose that some old traditional sports cars had (and the Ariel Atom and Cateram still have). But IMO, it has enough emphasis on low weight, low CoG, and driver involvement (shifter, steering, pedal location, road feel, tossability, responsiveness) to be called a sports car.

And semantics aside, we're on the same page. The FT86 is small and raw enough to turn off most people, and large enough to turn off some purists. Such is the challenge for the jack-of-all-trades daily-driver sports car.

I absolutely agree its a drivers car, the low cog makes the car do amazing thing considering its heft. It does look like a sports car. But its heavier than any MR-S, and I always considered all but the MR-S a GT.




Those that say the early Miata and Elise aren't comparable just my opinion but their traits are what makes sports cars not comfort and horsepower. The Elise is probably the last true half-way affordable sport car we will ever see. But it had hidden cost with the carbon shell, other than that it posses about all the features and discomforts of a genuine sports car.




Everything is a compromise and I think the GT-86 got it right, but I'm still calling it a light GT not a sports car. And that's why most everyone wants more power. If she weighed 2300 lbs and was smaller the clamoring for a turbo would be small.

[vh_supra26]

Toyota met its goals for North America at least.

Sales of the FR-S last year were 20,152 units. 18,327 from the US and 1,825 units from Canada.

Scion Expects Up to 20,000 FR-S Sales Annually

http://wardsauto.com/sales-amp-marke...sales-annually

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by vh_supra26

Toyota met its goals for North America at least.

Sales of the FR-S last year were 20,152 units. 18,327 from the US and 1,825 units from Canada.

Scion Expects Up to 20,000 FR-S Sales Annually

http://wardsauto.com/sales-amp-marke...sales-annually

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/05...s-figures.html

Which basically puts to bed the rumors that this is a poor selling car by those who are in the North American market.

I guess global sales are down because of the European market's unique difficulties for non-European vehicles due to import duties, outrageous fuel taxation, etc. Basically it's cheaper to buy a used Porsche than a new GT86 there, and that creates competition that the 86 was not designed to compete with.

The rest of the world, I think, is seeing better sales.

Remember, the European market is so hard that the Impreza line is being discontinued there.

So, I'd expect that we could even at the 86 discontinued in Europe while the rest of the world will still be able to buy new models. Not sure if that'd happen, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[vh_supra26]

^Yup, this car is doing great here.

Europe will usually have slower sales than North America.

Sadly maybe, kinda an example but not really. The MK4 Supra was discontinue in the UK two years before it was dropped in the US.