Overview of suspension options beyond coilovers (starting point)

[dp1]

Thread goal: Identify desirable suspension upgrades (beyond coilovers) for a primarily street driven car that's also driven on track and ax for fun.

- Stock suspension works for most people. It's best not to mess up what engineers worked hard to achieve with this car, unless you know what you want out of the modifications and you/installer are choosing appropriate solutions to address your needs.
- Spend time driving the car and learning how suspension and tires behave in transitions, before making changes.
- It's usually better not to make make many changes at once.
- If street ride on stock suspension is stiff for you (as it is for me on "smooth" NY roads), and you have no intention in seriously AX-ing or tracking the car, aftermarket coilovers or springs can accomplish a lot. Car costs around $30k new, all in, and if you can afford to spend another 5-10% on excellent coilovers, it could make a huge difference and it may be all you really need.
- This is not a spring/coilover thread, so quick comment on spring rates and camber from @CSG Mike: "The soft (spring) rates mean that you will get a lot of roll. The roll means that you will hit the compression range on the front struts where instead of gaining negative camber (camber going more negative), you will start to lose negative camber (camber going more positive). This will cause you to lose cornering grip in the front. Ultimately, the stickier tires may cause you to go slower, because you roll more, and lose contact patch from camber loss."

Read 2013 Scion FR-S: Suspension Walkaround to see OEM parts http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...alkaround.html

Read Alignment FAQ (http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25001)
- Usually want some more camber in front than in rear, specific numbers depend on lowering and hardware (OEM, camber bolts, bushings, camber plates, lower control arms/LCAs, etc.) and use (street/AX/occasional track/track-only)
- I daily/ax/track my car in North East and I use -3.0f/-2.5r for street/ax/track Apr-Nov and -1.5f/-1.5r for street-only Dec-Mar.

My build: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79895

Few sites with examples of suspension components (alphabetic order):
http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...el=8&limit=all
http://www.crossoverauto.com/crossov...hm40b3u6qqpfg1
http://ft86speedfactory.com/suspension-38/
http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewC...dCategory=1711
http://perrinperformance.com/c-74511...uspension.html
http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pro...uspension.html (complete set http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pro...nsion_kit.html)
http://www.torquesolution.com/category-s/1299.htm

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COMPONENTS
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Camber Adjustment Bolts: Not needed for street use unless you have camber issues with stock setup. Cheap alternative to camber plates (front) and LCAs (rear) to get some negative camber but not much. You will wear outside edges of your tires without enough negative camber and push the car hard in turns, usually greater concern for track, somewhat for ax.
- PERRIN Performance http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-14mm-dia.html
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Lower Control Arm: Not needed for street use except when car is significantly lowered or for track/ax, to dial in specific camber. Negative camber in the rear will increase with drop. SPC hw is cheaper but has limit for negative camber, also search for concerns about rust. Front LCA - robispec, is lighter, has camber, caster, track width, roll center, and other adjustment...that most will never need. Shop first recommended SPC then swapped for SPL when it turned out that SPC couldn't achieve desired -2.5 rear camber.
- FT-86 SpeedFactory http://ft86speedfactory.com/suspensi...ntrol-arms-98/
- CounterSpace Garage http://counterspacegarage.com/produc...el=8&limit=all
- JB Tuned http://www.jbtuned.com/products/spl-...trol-arms.html
- Racer X Fabrication http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pro...trol_arms.html
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Upper Control Arm: Not needed for street use.
- The Racer X Fabrication rear upper control arms http://racerxfabrication.com/product...trol_arms.html
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Toe Arm: Not needed for street use. Used to adjust rear toe and for lowered applications.
- FT-86 SpeedFactory toe arms (various options) http://ft86speedfactory.com/suspension-38/toe-arms-120/
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Engine Mount: Reduce engine movement and improve power delivery at the expense of increased Noise Vibration Harshness (NVH). Stiffest mounts have highest NVH, especially at idle, and are geared towards AX/track use. Installed Perrin engine mount at the same time as Perrin transmission support. Noticeable increase in vibration from stock, especially on cold start.
- RallySportDirect.com (Cusco) engine mount http://www.rallysportdirect.com/Cusc...gine-Mount-Set
- PERRIN Performance http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
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Transmission Support: Not needed for street use. Can improve shifting feel at the expense of added NVH, usually not significant. Installed Perrin transmission mount support at the same time as Perrin engine mount. Noticeable increase in vibration from stock, especially on cold start. Waiting to see if anything changes as the engine mount settles in, also temps are in the 40's, which affects rubber. Will update post after putting on some miles.
- PERRIN Performance transmission support http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
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Front Control Arm Brace: Not needed for street use. Improves feel under heavy braking in AX/track applications.
- PERRIN Performance front control arm brace http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
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Endlinks: Not needed for street use. Recommended with installation of stronger aftermarket swaybar. Purchased both front and rear Whiteline endlinks per advice from shop.
http://ft86speedfactory.com/suspension-38/end-links-96/
- Whiteline http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...links-616.html
- PERRIN Performance spherical bearings http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
- PERRIN Performance ss xd spherical bearings http://perrinperformance.com/i-14660...-fr-s-brz.html
- PERRIN Performance endlinks with poly bushings http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
- Racer X Fabrication rear end links http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pro...end_links.html
- Whiteline rear end links http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...links-613.html
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Rear Toe Links: Not needed for street use. Adds rigidity and used for toe adjustment.
Racer X Fabrication rear toe links http://www.racerxfabrication.com/pro...toe_links.html
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Positive Steering Response System: Not needed for street use. Replaces the front control arm, front bushings, to reduce toe changes under hard braking.
- PERRIN Performance (zero) http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
- PERRIN Performance (offset) http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html (offset)
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Steering Rack Lockdown: Not needed for street use. Creates a solid connection between the steering rack and chassis to increase driver feel and communication from the front tires.
- PERRIN Performance steering rack lockdown http://perrinperformance.com/i-15768...-fr-s-brz.html
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Sway Bar: Not needed for street use. Stiffens the car during cornering. Often used in AX/track applications. Make sure that you talk to somebody with experience using sway bars on this platform before you make the plunge, also with understanding of your tires, alignment and coilovers. Ideally, somebody already tried what you are interested in, and you have a way to verify that it is what you want. Otherwise, you can change understeer/oversteer behavior, introduce more wheel spin, make the ride unnecessarily harsh and twitchy. Be careful with this one, especially if you spend most of the time driving on the street.
@CSG Mike: "Sways are typically used to reduce overall body roll (used front AND rear), or to adjust front/rear load balance (stiffer bar = more load = that axle loses traction faster relative to the opposite axle). E.g., if you have a car that is very oversteery under cornering, you can use a front sway to try to balance it out."
- PERRIN Performance front sway bar http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
- PERRIN Performance rear sway bar http://perrinperformance.com/i-13324...-fr-s-brz.html
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[solidONE]

I read about someone running an eccentric bolt on the rear lower control arm to gain some negative camber. Not so sure if that is a good idea since there is nothing stopping them from rotating besides the clamping force on the nuts and bolts. Although, the low cost is very appealing. Any opinions on this?

[mav1178]

Since you already have Ohlins, you should know what I also know:

Ohlins RT
Wheels
Tires
Brakes
Endlinks (maybe)

THAT IS IT.

Right now, for DD + ~10-15 track events a year max, I have zero need for any other suspension mod on the car.

If I do swap out something else, it'll be because parts are breaking, not because I need them.

-alex

[dp1]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Since you already have Ohlins, you should know what I also know:

Ohlins RT
Wheels
Tires
Brakes
Endlinks (maybe)

THAT IS IT.

Right now, for DD + ~10-15 track events a year max, I have zero need for any other suspension mod on the car.

If I do swap out something else, it'll be because parts are breaking, not because I need them.

-alex

Thanks, what is your F/R camber and toe?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by dp1

Thanks, what is your F/R camber and toe?

Front is -2.25, zero toe.
Rear is -1.5, zero toe. Rear camber is static, as it is what the car's camber ended up at after I "slammed" the Ohlins.

And when I mean slammed, I mean I adjusted it as low as they can go... which isn't much. Around -25mm front and -20mm rear versus stock. Barely lower than Eibach Prokits.

-alex

[dp1]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Front is -2.25, zero toe.
Rear is -1.5, zero toe. Rear camber is static, as it is what the car's camber ended up at after I "slammed" the Ohlins.

And when I mean slammed, I mean I adjusted it as low as they can go... which isn't much. Around -25mm front and -20mm rear versus stock. Barely lower than Eibach Prokits.

-alex

Thanks, one more q - rims size/offset and rubber type/size for track?

[mav1178]

Currently:

Volk RE30, 17x8" +44
Falken Azenis RT615R 235/40-17

Will move up to a different compound as my skills improve. 10 years between tracking the car (on a regular basis) makes you a rusty driver!

-alex

[dp1]

Updated comments on engine mounts and transmission support.