Best way to tackle the torque dip

[Malt]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Not saying it's legal, but for most jurisdictions that have emissions (whether visual or sniffer), you'll have a better chance of passing with two cats, esp when OEM has two.

Maybe true, but how many grease monkeys actually know the car has two cats stock and of those how many of them care? Maybe its where I live, but they look and if they see any cats at all, they pass it. Heck, when I had my STi I was completely catless but the third pipe had the stock heat shields over it. Passed every year because the inspection shops could care less.

Maybe a catted header will work for the OP, but I generally try to steer people into directions that make not only good sense when it comes to power, but fiscal sense as well. At close to $1000 that catted header doesn't pass my fiscal sense test, especially given the performance it provides. If one wanted to spend that much on a header there are MUCH better options out there.

[Kuri]

Lucky for me, I am in Texas. Emissions should not be a problem. I keep swinging back and forth between a catted header / non-catted. UEL is a must for me.

Now I guess I'll keep in mind OFH/FT86CH/JDL

I plan on going JDL twin scroll much later down the line.


OFH intrigues me, how's their collector look?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Malt

Maybe true, but how many grease monkeys actually know the car has two cats stock and of those how many of them care? Maybe its where I live, but they look and if they see any cats at all, they pass it. Heck, when I had my STi I was completely catless but the third pipe had the stock heat shields over it. Passed every year because the inspection shops could care less.

Maybe a catted header will work for the OP, but I generally try to steer people into directions that make not only good sense when it comes to power, but fiscal sense as well. At close to $1000 that catted header doesn't pass my fiscal sense test, especially given the performance it provides. If one wanted to spend that much on a header there are MUCH better options out there.

Yeah it will vary by jurisdiction.

Also I agree if peak power is an important goal, OFT + OFH will probably be the best bang for the buck. I would guess it'll make more power than tuned FT86SF catted, but that remains to be confirmed.

But if easy elimination of the torque dip is the ultimate goal (with minimal impact on warranty or emissions), I think FT86SF catted makes sense. That's not me and that's not you, but it could be OP.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah it will vary by jurisdiction.

Also I agree if peak power is an important goal, OFT + OFH will probably be the best bang for the buck. I would guess it'll make more power than tuned FT86SF catted, but that remains to be confirmed.

But if easy elimination of the torque dip is the ultimate goal (with minimal impact on warranty or emissions), I think FT86SF catted makes sense. That's not me and that's not you, but it could be OP.

Not that I disagree with you, but seeking a torque curve that doesn't have any dip at all while sacrificing power everywhere doesn't sound like a smart decision.

Originally Posted by Kuri

Lucky for me, I am in Texas. Emissions should not be a problem. I keep swinging back and forth between a catted header / non-catted. UEL is a must for me.

Now I guess I'll keep in mind OFH/FT86CH/JDL

I plan on going JDL twin scroll much later down the line.


OFH intrigues me, how's their collector look?

As for the looks of the header. Heres a post with some decent pictures.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=431

[Kuri]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yeah it will vary by jurisdiction.

Also I agree if peak power is an important goal, OFT + OFH will probably be the best bang for the buck. I would guess it'll make more power than tuned FT86SF catted, but that remains to be confirmed.

But if easy elimination of the torque dip is the ultimate goal (with minimal impact on warranty or emissions), I think FT86SF catted makes sense. That's not me and that's not you, but it could be OP.

That's really what I am waiting for, Someone to scoop up that header and get tuned.

I am not in a rush, so I am doing as much research before I jump the gun and waste money.

I learned that randomly throwing stuff on my 2008 WRX didn't make sense.
OFT is very similar to Cobb AP which I've used to tune with my turbo back Exhaust and install labor is not important. I am mechanically inclined.

[Kuri]

Originally Posted by Malt

Not that I disagree with you, but seeking a torque curve that doesn't have any dip at all while sacrificing power everywhere doesn't sound like a smart decision.



As for the looks of the header. Heres a post with some decent pictures.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=431

Collector obviously a lot cleaner then Borla.

JDL just looks sexy imo

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Malt

Not that I disagree with you, but seeking a torque curve that doesn't have any dip at all while sacrificing power everywhere doesn't sound like a smart decision.

Yeap, somehow there are loads of people in that thread that don't get it.

In addition, there has been quite a few graphs where there were evidences of making sure there no dip and sacrifice power else where. Plus I don't see how it could choked certain areas of the rev range and remove dip with no tunes.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Kuri

That's really what I am waiting for, Someone to scoop up that header and get tuned.

I am not in a rush, so I am doing as much research before I jump the gun and waste money.

I learned that randomly throwing stuff on my 2008 WRX didn't make sense.
OFT is very similar to Cobb AP which I've used to tune with my turbo back Exhaust and install labor is not important. I am mechanically inclined.

If you don't mind a slight torque dip (less than OFH) and have some money, you might also consider Nameless's EL header + tune. Expensive piece, but it matches the OFH + OFT in terms of peak power, and has considerably more midrange torque. Up 25 lb-ft at 3800 rpm.

This is tuned + Nameless header. My only concern about this dyno is that the baseline was really high (177 whp). So you should take this with a grain of salt. Really all of these graphs (OFH, FT86SF, and Nameless) have different baseline dynos, making direct comparisons difficult.

[tbertran]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

It's not the programming of OFT that makes OFH complicated. It's eliminating a cat (potential state emissions issues) plus adding a tune (potential warranty issues) that makes it complicated. If OP wants the simplest way of eliminating the torque dip, it's FT86SF's catted header. No tune or elimination of cat required. Just install the header and be done with it.

^^^


Same for me. I'm in California and I want to maximize my chances to pass emission out-of-the-box while keeping cost to 0 (no swapping the header before emission test).
Also, the cat will keep the volume down which is a very valid concern.
In addition, it will take care of exhaust smell giving you the option to go straight pipe header-back if you're so inclined.
At the end of the day, a catted header that addresses the torque dip (OP's requirement) with no tune allows for more options on the rest of your exhaust set-up (noise, smell, cat/no cat, tune).

[STV3]

I ordered the FT86sf catted header and it makes perfect sense for me. I got this car as a fun daily because I was tired of driving around my heavily modified neon as my daily. I want the ease of just slapping on the header and bye bye torque dip. Plus keeping the cat for inspection and not having to worry about any sort of tuning. Also I don't want the car to be loud at all because cops around me are ****s about loud exhausts. I just hate the feeling like I have crazy turbo lag when I step on the gas pedal. I'm sure I am not the only one in this situation and I'm sure there are plenty of people that this header makes sense for.

[jamesm]

all dyno charts should be taken with a grain of salt. the chances of exactly replicating something you see online are very, very slim. you may gain more or may gain less, but choosing a header (or any other mod) based on what you saw it do for some other car on the internet is generally not a great idea. you can draw conclusions from comparing multiple runs on multiple cars with multiple different configurations, but even then there are no guarantees. just too many variables to consider. looking at a single dyno chart for a given combination effectively tells you nothing at all about how it will work for you.

[fender9530]

Originally Posted by STV3

I ordered the FT86sf catted header and it makes perfect sense for me. I got this car as a fun daily because I was tired of driving around my heavily modified neon as my daily. I want the ease of just slapping on the header and bye bye torque dip. Plus keeping the cat for inspection and not having to worry about any sort of tuning. Also I don't want the car to be loud at all because cops around me are ****s about loud exhausts. I just hate the feeling like I have crazy turbo lag when I step on the gas pedal. I'm sure I am not the only one in this situation and I'm sure there are plenty of people that this header makes sense for.

Have to agree with the sound difference here too. The OFH/OFT deal is very good but having a catless header would probably be too loud for me. I also think the FT86 looks a little nicer in terms of quality although I might be biased since I ordered one as well.

In terms of financials, everyone should stick to what they can afford and what they like. I know there are quite a few people around here that will shell out big money for a "rare" exhaust piece for no other reason than to be different. To each his own, and that is what makes it fun.

[leicaboss]

I'm not as worried about passing smog or inspections - my main concern is in:

1. Noise level
2. Smell

My car is my daily driver, and I simply can't stand excessive noise, unwanted attention, and the awful smell. Others might, but I'm not willing to deal with it for potentially some extra ponies.

Because of these needs I pre-ordered the FT86SF catted UEL headers to reduce that torque dip and give me a little bit more of the Subaru rumble I'm looking for. On top of that, I'm running a Berk front pipe with HFC (high flow cat) + Perrin's 2.5" Resonated CBE. My OFT Stg 1 OTS map has been great and I can't wait to finish up my exhaust setup and get it dyno-tuned by the Vishnu team.

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by tbertran

^^^
Same for me. I'm in California and I want to maximize my chances to pass emission out-of-the-box while keeping cost to 0 (no swapping the header before emission test).
Also, the cat will keep the volume down which is a very valid concern.
In addition, it will take care of exhaust smell giving you the option to go straight pipe header-back if you're so inclined.
At the end of the day, a catted header that addresses the torque dip (OP's requirement) with no tune allows for more options on the rest of your exhaust set-up (noise, smell, cat/no cat, tune).

You might want to reconsider that. The shop foreman at my local dealership drives an FR-S and is currently deciding on what exhaust he is going to put on it. One thing he is sure of is that it is going to have that great big muffler in the stock location. His own research indicates that it is needed to not screw up the under car aerodynamics. They didn't put those panels under the car to make it look pretty up on a lift.