Poor Sales of Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S Likely To Rule Out New Variants

[Rio]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

It's interesting how the term "muscle car" has become so broad as to include, for the most part, "anything American with a V8" or to include every brand "car with a decent amount of power" since a lot of people think the 370Z is a form of Japanese muscle car. I mean, you go back through the years and the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger are pony cars, rather more purpose-built sports/GT vehicles. The muscle cars were generally two door family cars where they plopped in a a big engine, like the Chevelle, Charger, and Galaxie.
The More You Know ♒☆

You are kind of right. Back in the 60's and 70's, Camaro, Firebirds, Barracudas and Mustangs were classified Pony cars. But Mustang (the father of all Pony cars) was also a muscle car (Thanks to Roush, Saleen and Shelby).

Now days the V6 Mustang and Camaro are the only ones that would have remained in the Pony Car class. Maybe the GT.

[jenzan]

I'm just the messenger, don't hate me...

But there's nothing like finding an article that makes the front page to FT86.com and gets a lively discussion going about the viability of the twins in the automotive market. I'm sure we're all just shocked and upset should Subaru and Toyota stop manufacturing these beauties after a couple years considering its warm reception both critically and amongst fans.

The article definitely doesn't reflect my own personal opinion.

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by Rio

This has to be one of the dumbest business case discussions ever! Well of course sales are down. Toyota's product life cycle per 86 variant is so freaking short and conflicting with itself that the consumer is left wondering what will happen next. They couldn't sell all of their 10 Series and they roll out the Monogram. WTF?

Stock holders are very likely looking at how the SCION/Toyota leadership failed on managing their 86 PLC (Product Life Cycle) and not wondering why it is not selling well.

I have to wonder who the hell made the call on the Monogram and let the consumer wishes become rumors. They should have denied all rumors of a convertible, hold any variants for at least another 6 months. And for the love of Pete... deny any power upgrades and offer them through the TRD program exclusively. Maybe even like @DarrenDriven mentioned to me today, a national TRD circuit like IROC and Miata Spec. Tie in TRD parts sales and marketing, sponsor a Fast N' Furious mini series and you will have a winning product! Pun fully intended :-)

The 10 series was never really intended to be on the FRS lifecycle. It was a special edition car for the whole company lineup.

It wouldn't have made sense for them to make 10 series cars for every model except the frs.

[ZionsWrath]

Do you really think they had higher expectations? Sport cars are always niche market low volume, no? Nissan and mazda haven't stop making Zs and Miatas.

I don't mind if there are no "variants" as long as they keep making this car.

[Rio]

Originally Posted by subiestyle

The 10 series was never really intended to be on the FRS lifecycle. It was a special edition car for the whole company lineup.

It wouldn't have made sense for them to make 10 series cars for every model except the frs.

Although you are correct about a company special release it is still part of the FR-S lifecycle.

[subiestyle]

Originally Posted by Purdue FR-S

I'm not sure what type of sales targets they had in mind...

but the S2000 for instance never had sales of 10,000 in a single year here in the states. Judging by the fact that they sold 18,000 of the FR-S in the US last year ... I'd say it's here to stay for some time yet.

Not enough sales to justify a variant ... but enough sales to justify the platform.

I guess I just hope that this doesn't deter other automakers from dropping their sporty car plans.

...and the Mustang is HUGE!!!!!!!

The s2000 only came in manual transmission. The s2000 MT probably outsold or equaled the FRS MT sales.

I heard a quote that scion and subaru only make 25% of their cars to be MT. The rest is auto.

The key thing to look out for in terms of continuing production on the FRS/BRZ is to see if the guts of the car is used in other better selling lineups. A version of the BRZ engine is already in one of the sedan models.

[Braces]

Toyota is not going to give up on the 86. It has too much R&D invested. Not sure about the sales numbers, but no other RWD car really competes with the 86 in terms of price and go-cart characteristics.

[airjonny]

The car is in a league of its own handling wise. But more power would be icing on the cake. As fun as the car is, you gotta exit the corner eventually.

Take the Boss 302. Yes it's a muscle car. But adding the better handling didn't "ruin" the car, nor did it change the main philosophy of the car. It added a new dynamic to the car which gave their base the best of both worlds.

[Chronogps]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Do you really think they had higher expectations? Sport cars are always niche market low volume, no? Nissan and mazda haven't stop making Zs and Miatas.

Exactly. I read that (around) 27 000 BRZ/FRS has been sold in the US in 2013 (probably 30/35% of worlwide sales - the ratio for MX5/RX8 sales). This is not so far from the best sales numbers of MX5 (36 000 in 1991), 10-15% more the best sales numbers of RX8 (2004). And the economy context is not the same... MX5 sales for 2012 : 6300 units (best year 2006 with 16,897 units). If Mazda can produce next generation with so low level volume it is difficult to understand why Toybary cannot...

[Bristecom]

I just want to add that it irritates me so much how these automotive news sites just rehash the same crap across the web. If one site says it, then all of them have to repeat it with a more dramatic twist. Just because some fat mouth from Toyota Europe thinks the 86 isn't doing as well as it should have, it apparently means the end of the line for the 86/FR-S/BRZ to these bored and desperate news reporters.

[Drftfan]

It is overpriced. Simple as that. Agree or disagree I don't personally care. But after realizing the other vehicles I could have bought for the same amount, new and used I realized you don't get much for your dollar.
And yes I fully understand what I bought and what the car was designed for etc etc. Still overpriced.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by Drftfan

It is overpriced. Simple as that. Agree or disagree I don't personally care. But after realizing the other vehicles I could have bought for the same amount, new and used I realized you don't get much for your dollar.
And yes I fully understand what I bought and what the car was designed for etc etc. Still overpriced.

Someone pointed out that when they set the 2MM Yen price target, the exchange rate was nothing like it is now (the Yen having since appreciated significantly).

I personally don't think Toyota will be dumb enough to 86 the 86... I see lots of them in Toronto (even in the winter), mostly driven by high 20s/30s men (though one of my coworkers, a tiny 5-foot-none young lady also drives a M/T SWP BRZ).
They need this car to draw people* back into the dealerships.

It may not be profitable, but if the idea was to use this platform to spawn other lightweight, RWD, fun-to-drive cars, then the perceived sales success/failure of this particular iteration of the FT86 platform may become less critical.



*people who are not looking for automotive appliances, and who do not see driving as simply that waste of time between point A and B.

[cbf]

Originally Posted by FRSure

Most people my age (18-22), don't really care about sports car..
..

People my age only care about phones, snapchat, facebook, and not cars.

Sad to see that there are barely any car enthusiast.

I just let my 18-year old, iPhone obsessed, Facebook'ing, Snapchatting son drive my BRZ for the first time.

Once we got to a street where he could really open it up and go through the gears his reaction was ..

"THIS CAR IS AWESOME!!"

He's begging to borrow it when his girlfriend is home from college next week, so he can drive around town and show off.

[Timmy_Jones]

Originally Posted by cbf

I just let my 18-year old, iPhone obsessed, Facebook'ing, Snapchatting son drive my BRZ for the first time.

Once we got to a street where he could really open it up and go through the gears his reaction was ..

"THIS CAR IS AWESOME!!"

He's begging to borrow it when his girlfriend is home from college next week, so he can drive around town and show off.

Tell him to put his phone away when he is driving, or better yet just leave the phone at home.