smbstyle's SWP BRZ

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

A buddy of mine wrecked his car and the OEM seat back broke (as it's designed to do). Imagine how friendly that bar will be then.

Some groups will not allow you to run that, including events I help run

Yeah that's not supposed to happen lol. Was that a BRZ?

I know at work we've had some cases with accident reconstruction experts as well as spending some time at IIHS in Va, and can say with certainty they're not designed or supposed to break in an impact, as their purpose is to withstand a heavy amount of force. In fact there are several civil cases out there where manufacturers were sued and paid out money in cases where the seat back broke causing further injuries.

We can debate safety equipment setup for days, and the pros and cons, but the reality is were taking a risk whether we run all OEM equipment on track or a mix and match of different safety equipment. For me, it was the fact that spinal and skull fractures related to an impact being a leading cause of driving/racing deaths was the reason I won't go on track without my HANS, which requires the harness and harness bar. Yeah, I could go with a full cage and racing seats, but that is not an option for me at this time. There's a chance of other things happening that may be made worse by added safety equipment (i.e. rollover), but the chance of death without the HANS or any kind of head/neck restraint is much higher than the other possible scenarios. Plus, Schroth has done most of their sled testing with the ASM 4 points with stock seats.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

Yeah that's not supposed to happen lol. Was that a BRZ?

I know at work we've had some cases with accident reconstruction experts as well as spending some time at IIHS in Va, and can say with certainty they're not designed or supposed to break in an impact, as their purpose is to withstand a heavy amount of force. In fact there are several civil cases out there where manufacturers were sued and paid out money in cases where the seat back broke causing further injuries.

We can debate safety equipment setup for days, and the pros and cons, but the reality is were taking a risk whether we run all OEM equipment on track or a mix and match of different safety equipment. For me, it was the fact that spinal and skull fractures related to an impact being a leading cause of driving/racing deaths was the reason I won't go on track without my HANS, which requires the harness and harness bar. Yeah, I could go with a full cage and racing seats, but that is not an option for me at this time. There's a chance of other things happening that may be made worse by added safety equipment (i.e. rollover), but the chance of death without the HANS or any kind of head/neck restraint is much higher than the other possible scenarios. Plus, Schroth has done most of their sled testing with the ASM 4 points with stock seats.

Isn't that the main reason why cars have front airbags? The airbag prevents your neck from snapping too far forward. In the absence of a front airbag i.e., F1, the HANS device is used to prevent the neck from snapping forward.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by ayau

Isn't that the main reason why cars have front airbags? The airbag prevents your neck from snapping too far forward. In the absence of a front airbag i.e., F1, the HANS device is used to prevent the neck from snapping forward.

No, the purpose and design of the airbag is to protect from blunt force trauma due to the stock 3 point seat belt that doesn't keep you contained; the airbag will not prevent spinal and basal skull fractures.

[smbstyle]

Got a great deal from @stmount on some barely used NT-01s in stock sizing



Got a Berk single exit muffler delete WITH a tip, due to @fldoc complaining how ugly the exhaust is without the tip. Since that's the only part of the car he gets to see on track, I figured I'd make it look good for him

[zeppy]

nice find! those should fit perfectly on the factory wheels. Was this just a better deal or were rs3's too hard to find?

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by zeppy

nice find! those should fit perfectly on the factory wheels. Was this just a better deal or were rs3's too hard to find?

Both! I shifted my focus to the NT01 since the RS3 wasn't available, and didn't want to waste money on a slower tire, so decided to give these a shot. Plan on driving to-from the events on them as well.

[ATL BRZ]

Now I'm not sure about the harness bar. I understand both sides of the argument, but I think it needs more discussion (new thread?)

I need a new helmet next year anyways so I'll get one that's HANS compatible. Since my Dad doesn't race anymore I can use his HANS and only have to buy the bar + harnesses but I guess I need to check if PCA and HoD will allow that setup before buying it. I just want to be safer, period.

I don't have any issue with feeling secure in the stock seat and 3 point belt, but I'd like to minimize risk of injury on track in an incident.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Now I'm not sure about the harness bar. I understand both sides of the argument, but I think it needs more discussion (new thread?)

I need a new helmet next year anyways so I'll get one that's HANS compatible. Since my Dad doesn't race anymore I can use his HANS and only have to buy the bar + harnesses but I guess I need to check if PCA and HoD will allow that setup before buying it. I just want to be safer, period.

I don't have any issue with feeling secure in the stock seat and 3 point belt, but I'd like to minimize risk of injury on track in an incident.

We take all kinds of risks going out on track, especially in a street car. For me, reducing the likelihood of the most common type of injury that can result in death, which is neck/head injuries, I had to find a way to run my HANS. The only safe way to do that in a street car is use a harness bar, which was recommended to my by both Schroth and HMS Motorsport. Watch some of Schroth's sled test videos with/without HANS and you'll be scared to run without one (btw, they do their sled testing with OEM seats using their ASM 4 points). I can comfortably say that I am safer in a collision with the HANS and a harness bar rather than without it. Is it ideal and the SAFEST way to run on track? No, I could just put a full cage in it, 6 point, racing seat, etc., but that is actually more likely more dangerous on the street if Im driving to the track, where my chances of a collision are much higher, and I don't have the funds to turn this into a trailered only track car. I personally know of several HPDE deaths that could have been prevented or chances of survival greatly improved with the use of a HANS, and have seen several crashes on track WITH harness bars in Vette's and Porsche's without any issue. I went with the Agency Power bar rather than the Essex bar b/c the AP bar uses 4 OEM seat belt mounting locations to mount the bar.

And if you come across a club that won't let you run that setup (either 3 point/stock seat or full cage/harness,etc) than you can still easily run the OEM 3 point. I drive to/from the events on the OEM 3 point and use the Schroth 4 point ASM on track. Harness car can also be easily and quickly removed from the car, and the harness clips in and out with my setup.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

We take all kinds of risks going out on track, especially in a street car. For me, reducing the likelihood of the most common type of injury that can result in death, which is neck/head injuries, I had to find a way to run my HANS. The only safe way to do that in a street car is use a harness bar, which was recommended to my by both Schroth and HMS Motorsport. Watch some of Schroth's sled test videos with/without HANS and you'll be scared to run without one (btw, they do their sled testing with OEM seats using their ASM 4 points). I can comfortably say that I am safer in a collision with the HANS and a harness bar rather than without it. Is it ideal and the SAFEST way to run on track? No, I could just put a full cage in it, 6 point, racing seat, etc., but that is actually more likely more dangerous on the street if Im driving to the track, where my chances of a collision are much higher, and I don't have the funds to turn this into a trailered only track car. I personally know of several HPDE deaths that could have been prevented or chances of survival greatly improved with the use of a HANS, and have seen several crashes on track WITH harness bars in Vette's and Porsche's without any issue. I went with the Agency Power bar rather than the Essex bar b/c the AP bar uses 4 OEM seat belt mounting locations to mount the bar.

And if you come across a club that won't let you run that setup (either 3 point/stock seat or full cage/harness,etc) than you can still easily run the OEM 3 point. I drive to/from the events on the OEM 3 point and use the Schroth 4 point ASM on track. Harness car can also be easily and quickly removed from the car, and the harness clips in and out with my setup.

If concerned about Head/neck injuries a Defndr/NecksGen is a better move. HANS without a containment seat is only so-so. It's what I use as well but that's because of the race car, which has a containment seat. I've been seriously considering buying a NecksGen simply because the track car doesn't have a containment seat (and no desire since it's a car I drive to the track instead of towing).

On the HANS/etc without a proper rollbar, well I've already expressed my opinion on that, no need to reiterate lol

90% of the reason I stopped tracking the BRZ was because of the lack of safety gear 10% is fear of DI failure haha

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

If concerned about Head/neck injuries a Defndr/NecksGen is a better move. HANS without a containment seat is only so-so. It's what I use as well but that's because of the race car, which has a containment seat. I've been seriously considering buying a NecksGen simply because the track car doesn't have a containment seat (and no desire since it's a car I drive to the track instead of towing).

On the HANS/etc without a proper rollbar, well I've already expressed my opinion on that, no need to reiterate lol

90% of the reason I stopped tracking the BRZ was because of the lack of safety gear 10% is fear of DI failure haha

I'll have to take a look at them. Are they tested/proven w/ SFI and FIA certifications? When I started getting into the hobby and started wheel to wheel, HANS was really the only reputable thing out there, but I'm sure more have come along that I really havent paid attention to. If I could have a Sparco ProADV halo seat like I had in my Miata I'd be much happier; it is a great seat.

LOL on the DI seal failure. Seriously that's the reason I'm not touching the engine for now, mod wise. Yeah I definitely felt much better/safer in my full race prepped Miata, but with the cost of a unnecessary truck/trailer, etc just to take the Miata to the track got a bit out of hand, and a full caged car is way too dangerous to drive on the street. For me with the BRZ, this was the best way I could make it a bit safer for me vs the OEM 3 point w/ no HANS/harness etc.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

I'll have to take a look at them. Are they tested/proven w/ SFI and FIA certifications? When I started getting into the hobby and started wheel to wheel, HANS was really the only reputable thing out there, but I'm sure more have come along that I really havent paid attention to. If I could have a Sparco ProADV halo seat like I had in my Miata I'd be much happier; it is a great seat.

LOL on the DI seal failure. Seriously that's the reason I'm not touching the engine for now, mod wise. Yeah I definitely felt much better/safer in my full race prepped Miata, but with the cost of a unnecessary truck/trailer, etc just to take the Miata to the track got a bit out of hand, and a full caged car is way too dangerous to drive on the street. For me with the BRZ, this was the best way I could make it a bit safer for me vs the OEM 3 point w/ no HANS/harness etc.

Yes, despites HANS best attempts to keep putting them out of business.

DefNDer's were really nice but HANS sued them out of business (normal HANS MO). If you research HANS business practices alone one could conclude that they should pick something else....

All of the SFI 38.1 systems work very well, some are more of a pain in the ass (web harness ones like the Hutchens stuff) and others are similar but better than HANS (less belt slip issues, which I've had with a HANS in a crash! Yes, belts were tightened correctly. Some have better side protection, etc).

The FIA test is really specific to the HANS, but no one requires that here for that reason. SFI 38.1 is used instead.

Like I said I do use a HANS, but I don't feel that it's the superior device. It was selected simply because it was popular before we really researched this stuff a few years ago. 2" belts, roll bar, fixed seat and harnesses are required for me to use it though.

IE if/when I drive your car on track I'll use the 3 point. It's safer IMO

I probably will pick up a NecksGen soon, you can check it out once I do. Next track day will probably be with the BRZ (last one ) so it won't be for a few months.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Yes, despites HANS best attempts to keep putting them out of business.

DefNDer's were really nice but HANS sued them out of business (normal HANS MO). If you research HANS business practices alone one could conclude that they should pick something else....

All of the SFI 38.1 systems work very well, some are more of a pain in the ass (web harness ones like the Hutchens stuff) and others are similar but better than HANS (less belt slip issues, which I've had with a HANS in a crash! Yes, belts were tightened correctly. Some have better side protection, etc).

The FIA test is really specific to the HANS, but no one requires that here for that reason. SFI 38.1 is used instead.

Like I said I do use a HANS, but I don't feel that it's the superior device. It was selected simply because it was popular before we really researched this stuff a few years ago. 2" belts, roll bar, fixed seat and harnesses are required for me to use it though.

IE if/when I drive your car on track I'll use the 3 point. It's safer IMO

I probably will pick up a NecksGen soon, you can check it out once I do. Next track day will probably be with the BRZ (last one ) so it won't be for a few months.

Yeah I know they are/were pretty aggressive with guarding their "proprietary" technology and trying to get rid of any brands that had similar devices, but didn't know how far they really went.

One day the BRZ will have a cage/6 pt/halo seat... maybe in a few years when SCCA opens up a Spec 86 class.

Yeah no sweat, I still have the 3 point that I use on a daily basis, I won't be offended if you don't use the 4 point harness lol.

[smbstyle]

While were on the topic.... an interesting visual comparison:

http://jalopnik.com/hans-vs-no-hans-...ash-1532535262

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

While were on the topic.... an interesting visual comparison:

http://jalopnik.com/hans-vs-no-hans-...ash-1532535262

Pretty sure I know what video that is without clicking on the link