Can bags perform as well as coilovers? - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

yuicebox · 02-14-2014, 04:55 PM

Hey everyone,

Sorry if this insights a flame war or resuscitates a dead horse.

For a long time, I HATED bags and I would never have considered putting them on my car.

I saw that video that Air Lift Performance released that tried to show that their air system was comparable to coilovers, but it seemed like a lot of pseudoscience and they didn't give much information about the coilovers they were using for their tests.

I just wanted to get opinions from those with experience with airbag suspensions as to whether they thought that bags could perform even comparably to coilovers.

The car only sees track time a few times a year, but I really enjoy spirited driving. I like the versatility of bags but I don't want to compromise my driving experience.

7thgear · 02-14-2014, 05:01 PM

soo..

i think you should probably start with what it is that you want to accomplish by installing bags.

what is the end goal... cuz you keep repating "comprabale to coilovers," but what is it that you think you are asking?

mrk1 · 02-14-2014, 05:06 PM

What coilovers are you comparing too? there are plenty of crap coils out there that are pretty much only coilovers in name.

DAEMANO · 02-14-2014, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuicebox

Hey everyone,

Sorry if this insights a flame war or resuscitates a dead horse.

For a long time, I HATED bags and I would never have considered putting them on my car.

I saw that video that Air Lift Performance released that tried to show that their air system was comparable to coilovers, but it seemed like a lot of pseudoscience and they didn't give much information about the coilovers they were using for their tests.

I just wanted to get opinions from those with experience with airbag suspensions as to whether they thought that bags could perform even comparably to coilovers.

The car only sees track time a few times a year, but I really enjoy spirited driving. I like the versatility of bags but I don't want to compromise my driving experience.

RS*R Black-i's were made just for you.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54567

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49980

yuicebox · 02-14-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuicebox

The car only sees track time a few times a year, but I really enjoy spirited driving. I like the versatility of bags but I don't want to compromise my driving experience.

I tried to clarify this with the last bit of the first post, but I guess more details would help.

I want the car to be able to perform comparably in high-performance driving situations. For example:

Let's say hypothetically that my friend and I are EXACTLY the same skill level when it comes to driving.

If we went to the track and I was on Air Ride and he was on Fortune 500s, would I be able to put down comparable times?
Would my suspension blow up or give out due to the high temperatures of a track day?
Would my turn-in response, braking and maximum G forces be comparable?

Basically I'm just trying to understand how big of gap exists between setups.

mrk1 · 02-14-2014, 05:11 PM

I've driven plenty of cars with factory bags, definitely change my thoughts about bags. Managing a heavy Rover Sport or Bentley in the corners is a big task for the suspension. I was amazed how confident those things can be. Now is that comparable to bags on the twin, not really.

yuicebox · 02-14-2014, 05:11 PM

@mrk1

Something like Fortune 500s with swift springs? Kind of like mid-level coilovers?

I would assume that if you compared a bag setup to KW Clubsports, the KWs would just crush them around the track. Am I wrong in that assumption?

yuicebox · 02-14-2014, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

RS*R Black-i's were made just for you.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54567

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49980

So these are just a coilover for people looking for an extreme drop? Or is there something I'm missing?

I don't necessarily want a slammed static setup because I don't want to scrape constantly.

Edit: Read a bit more, now I see that the whole point is that they ride very comfortably. I would imagine that these would limit the amount of camber you could run given the fact that they don't have camber plates (due to their mounts). Interesting topic though, I'll keep reading up.

mrk1 · 02-14-2014, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuicebox

@mrk1

Something like Fortune 500s with swift springs? Kind of like mid-level coilovers?

I would assume that if you compared a bag setup to KW Clubsports, the KWs would just crush them around the track. Am I wrong in that assumption?

I would think the best coils to compare to would be whatever is equal in price, try to draw a level playing field on price.

Another thought about bags is the added weight of the associated parts, tank and pump.

There are examples of cars usings air for performance not just parking. This car comes to mind, http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/01/...ensopra-380sx/

DAEMANO · 02-14-2014, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuicebox

So these are just a coilover for people looking for an extreme drop? Or is there something I'm missing?

I don't necessarily want a slammed static setup because I don't want to scrape constantly.

Edit: Read a bit more, now I see that the whole point is that they ride very comfortably. I would imagine that these would limit the amount of camber you could run given the fact that they don't have camber plates (due to their mounts). Interesting topic though, I'll keep reading up.

Extreme drop + comfort + ability to track/HDPE now and then. They have cambered holes in the shock mount that allows for either 0 camber or fixed -1.5 IIRC. Yes, you would have to adjust your ride height when going to track every now and then.

yuicebox · 02-14-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrk1

There are examples of cars usings air for performance not just parking. This car comes to mind, http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/01/...ensopra-380sx/

I didn't know the Bensopra 380 was on air!

mrk1 · 02-14-2014, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuicebox

I didn't know the Bensopra 380 was on air!

It doesn't say much about it but I think it maybe that hybrid design of a coilover with a bag half way over it, "air-cupped coilover" similar to the hydraulic nose lift systems on lambos.

IAmNotTheDriftKing · 02-14-2014, 05:36 PM

Why not get some KW V3s? The don't ruin the ride of the car(and may improve it) but they are amazing at a track or for spirited driving!

DAEMANO · 02-14-2014, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmNotTheDriftKing

Why not get some KW V3s? The don't ruin the ride of the car(and may improve it) but they are amazing at a track or for spirited driving!

Probably because the max drop on KW V3's is only 1.5", which unfortunately for most peeps that are considering bags isn't nearly low enough.

02-14-2014, 04:55 PM	#1
yuicebox Banned Join Date: Jun 2013 Drives: Asphalt FRS Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 217 Thanks: 171 Thanked 145 Times in 71 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Can bags perform as well as coilovers? Hey everyone, Sorry if this insights a flame war or resuscitates a dead horse. For a long time, I HATED bags and I would never have considered putting them on my car. I saw that video that Air Lift Performance released that tried to show that their air system was comparable to coilovers, but it seemed like a lot of pseudoscience and they didn't give much information about the coilovers they were using for their tests. I just wanted to get opinions from those with experience with airbag suspensions as to whether they thought that bags could perform even comparably to coilovers. The car only sees track time a few times a year, but I really enjoy spirited driving. I like the versatility of bags but I don't want to compromise my driving experience.

02-14-2014, 05:01 PM	#2
7thgear i'm sorry, what? Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: Canada Location: I rock a beat harder than you can beat it with rocks Posts: 4,399 Thanks: 357 Thanked 2,508 Times in 1,268 Posts Mentioned: 40 Post(s) Tagged: 3 Thread(s)	soo.. i think you should probably start with what it is that you want to accomplish by installing bags. what is the end goal... cuz you keep repating "comprabale to coilovers," but what is it that you think you are asking? __________________ don't you think if I was wrong, I'd know it?

02-14-2014, 05:06 PM	#3
mrk1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: Sterling BRZ Ltd Location: New England Posts: 1,702 Thanks: 403 Thanked 1,389 Times in 671 Posts Mentioned: 21 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	What coilovers are you comparing too? there are plenty of crap coils out there that are pretty much only coilovers in name. __________________ The Build Thread GT28RS - eBoost2 - 3.91 Final Drive - Supra LSD

02-14-2014, 05:11 PM	#6
mrk1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Drives: Sterling BRZ Ltd Location: New England Posts: 1,702 Thanks: 403 Thanked 1,389 Times in 671 Posts Mentioned: 21 Post(s) Tagged: 2 Thread(s)	I've driven plenty of cars with factory bags, definitely change my thoughts about bags. Managing a heavy Rover Sport or Bentley in the corners is a big task for the suspension. I was amazed how confident those things can be. Now is that comparable to bags on the twin, not really. __________________ The Build Thread GT28RS - eBoost2 - 3.91 Final Drive - Supra LSD

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02-14-2014, 05:36 PM	#13
IAmNotTheDriftKing Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Drives: I own an FR-S. . . whatelse! Location: Northwest Indiana Posts: 318 Thanks: 114 Thanked 140 Times in 84 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Why not get some KW V3s? The don't ruin the ride of the car(and may improve it) but they are amazing at a track or for spirited driving!

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