BRZ vs. Fiesta ST - great track review

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Don't recall Randy complaining about understeer in the BRZ. Here are his comments when asked to compare the twins in MT's "$28K 2 Door High Performance Comparison":

Yeah Randy prefers more understeer when it comes to the Twins. You're right, he doesn't complain about the understeer (i.e., stability) in the BRZ, and in fact, you can tell he prefers it.

Let me highlight a few things in your quote:

I like the Subaru better, primarily because it's less loose on entry. It has a more even balance, front to rear. It has more of an on-rails feeling than a rotating feeling. In the Scion, you feel the back move almost before the front. In the Subaru, it's more one-piece.

It comes down to preference, but if you watch Randy review cars, you can tell he's actually relatively cautious and emphasizes having "confidence" in a car. If he feels he can trust the car, he'll quickly push it to its limits, whereas if he feels the rear end is going to come around (i.e., oversteer), he will back off.

Other drivers prefer the FR-S because it understeers less. Try reading this review as well:

http://www.onehotlap.com/2013/01/the...-s-or-brz.html

[Sport-Tech]

The stability Randy prefers is not what he defines as understeer (those are your words), it's neutrality. What Randy does not favour is entry oversteer, as he says himself - no reading between the lines necessary: " It has a more even balance, front to rear. It has more of an on-rails feeling than a rotating feeling. In the Scion, you feel the back move almost before the front. In the Subaru, it's more one-piece."

The reviewer you cite preferred the slidey action of the FRS, Randy likes what he sees as the neutral stability of the BRZ and gets better times with it. It would be interesting to see both of them drive their preferred choice in a head to head at Streets of Willow. I know where my money would be.

Of course track times should obviously not be the criteria for personal choice - drive both and choose. (In my case it'll be the first out the door with a factory-warranteed power boost that gets my cash, if I wait that long!)

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The stability Randy prefers is not understeer, it's neutrality. What Randy does not favour is entry oversteer, as he says himself - no reading between the lines necessary.

Understeer and oversteer are opposite ends on the same scale. There's no reading between the lines going on.

Also the concept of neutral, or as Randy calls it, "even balance, front to rear", can be very subjective depending on preference.

[Sport-Tech]

There's no reading between the lines going on.

I think people can make their own judgment on that.

There is a neutral point between understeer and oversteer where all four wheels let go to the same degree at the same time, which is clearly what Randy prefers.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

I think people can make their own judgment on that.

There is a neutral point between understeer and oversteer where all four wheels let go to the same degree at the same time, which is clearly what Randy prefers.

You should read the discussion I was having with CSG Mike above. I commented on this in the discussion, but Randy was slightly faster with the BRZ at SOWS. CSG Mike does a good job explaining how understeer can be faster.

Also I think if you get some seat time in the Twins at the track, you will see where I'm coming from. To anyone who's tracked these cars, it's clear as day both cars understeer somewhat in steady-state cornering, with the BRZ understeering slightly more. The FR-S will oversteer more easily under power on corner exit.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Other drivers prefer the FR-S because it understeers less.

Important distinction IMO.

[val_lixembeau]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The stability Randy prefers is not what he defines as understeer (those are your words), it's neutrality. What Randy does not favour is entry oversteer, as he says himself - no reading between the lines necessary: " It has a more even balance, front to rear. It has more of an on-rails feeling than a rotating feeling. In the Scion, you feel the back move almost before the front. In the Subaru, it's more one-piece."

I get what you're saying, but most reviews of the cars put the FR-S as more neutral than the BRZ. I'm never going to drive them back to back at a track so I wouldn't know, but I would presume professional reviewers mostly know what they are talking about.