Self tune, or tuner?

[jamesm]

i think the biggest misconception about self-tuning is that it is risky. being stupid is risky, not tuning your car. if you can follow best practices and not do anything incredibly stupid, you're not going to blow your car up. it's not a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

not saying everyone should do it, just that it isn't as scary/risky as some like to make it seem. i think it's a lot more risky to let someone you've never met do it for you, but that's just me.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i think the biggest misconception about self-tuning is that it is risky. being stupid is risky, not tuning your car. if you can follow best practices and not do anything incredibly stupid, you're not going to blow your car up. it's not a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

not saying everyone should do it, just that it isn't as scary/risky as some like to make it seem.

I agree that being stupid is risky. And not educating yourself before attempting something is stupid. Experience is still important though, especially when you're sorting through "best practices" that are still being debated among the knowledgeable (how lean is too lean? what tables do I adjust first?). You still need to consider the magnitude of the job ahead versus the experience level of the person attempting.

"I'm going to give myself a crash course in engine operation, then I'm going to jump from almost stock to boosting a car that was never designed for it and while learning to tune at the same time." Moving so quickly with hardware AND tuning while having no experience can lead to problems.

For example, if you've never scaled a MAF sensor before, maybe you should first try it on a mostly stock engine, whether that's a mostly stock FT86 or a mostly stock WRX or whatever. Just sayin.

Repetition is the father of learning, right? I think I got that from a Lil' Wayne song...

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by arghx7

I agree that being stupid is risky. And not educating yourself before attempting something is stupid. Experience is still important though, especially when you're sorting through "best practices" that are still being debated among the knowledgeable (how lean is too lean? what tables do I adjust first?). You still need to consider the magnitude of the job ahead versus the experience level of the person attempting.

"I'm going to give myself a crash course in engine operation, then I'm going to jump from almost stock to boosting a car that was never designed for it and while learning to tune at the same time." Moving so quickly with hardware AND tuning while having no experience can lead to problems.

For example, if you've never scaled a MAF sensor before, maybe you should first try it on a mostly stock engine, whether that's a mostly stock FT86 or a mostly stock WRX or whatever. Just sayin.

Repetition is the father of learning, right? I think I got that from a Lil' Wayne song...

i agree, but then there's no way to gain experience without just jumping in and doing it. following best practices and reading up (i.e. not being stupid) is your safety net. you can't be afraid to learn, and doing so means having to jump in and try. collect a lot of data, make small changes, understand what you're doing before you do it, and you'll be fine. if you mess up the maf scale and go lean for a few seconds it's not going to blow your car up. trust me, i know .

these cars are incredibly good at saving themselves from your mistakes. as long as you know when to get out of the throttle and are monitoring what you're supposed to be monitoring, there is little to worry about in reality.

[kbogarto]

So in theory for those who buy a tune. Do you have to buy a new tune everytime you buy another performance part? How much do they typically run once you already have the hardware?

[mrk1]

Originally Posted by kbogarto

So in theory for those who buy a tune. Do you have to buy a new tune everytime you buy another performance part? How much do they typically run once you already have the hardware?

lots of tuners offer discounted retunes for small upgrades, thats certainly a question to ask when picking a tuner.

My last tuner was $150 for retunes for example.

[jflogerzi]

for NA tunes, OFT is the way to go. Its open, good support with regular updates. More people are sharing there thoughts, maps, tips, etc.. because of all of these open nature tuning solutions. Should you tune your own car, I rather not. I trust what the community recommends.

[Deep Six]

I paid to have a local tuner provide me with tunes for 93 octane and E85. Both were tweaked on the dyno and have performed great with no issues. At the time I had no interest in self tuning and Ecutek was limited so I bought only the liscence and not the cable. However I am becoming more and more fascinated with understanding the tuning process especially since Ecutek has become user friendly. I understand that tunes 1 and 2 are locked but is it possible to buy the full kit, use my existing liscence, and build tune 3 with a little help as part of a learning process?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I paid to have a local tuner provide me with tunes for 93 octane and E85. Both were tweaked on the dyno and have performed great with no issues. At the time I had no interest in self tuning and Ecutek was limited so I bought only the liscence and not the cable. However I am becoming more and more fascinated with understanding the tuning process especially since Ecutek has become user friendly. I understand that tunes 1 and 2 are locked but is it possible to buy the full kit, use my existing liscence, and build tune 3 with a little help as part of a learning process?

no it is not. your entire rom is locked. bullshit, i know. you can ask him to unlock it for you, but most won't.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by kbogarto

So in theory for those who buy a tune. Do you have to buy a new tune everytime you buy another performance part? How much do they typically run once you already have the hardware?

that really depends on your setup more than anything. if you're running sd then yes, anything that effects volumetric efficiency will require a retune. if you're running a basic na setup with a maf tune, you probably wouldn't realistically need to change anything unless you swapped headers. you always could and maybe see some benefit, but it wouldn't be strictly necessary.

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I paid to have a local tuner provide me with tunes for 93 octane and E85. Both were tweaked on the dyno and have performed great with no issues. At the time I had no interest in self tuning and Ecutek was limited so I bought only the liscence and not the cable. However I am becoming more and more fascinated with understanding the tuning process especially since Ecutek has become user friendly. I understand that tunes 1 and 2 are locked but is it possible to buy the full kit, use my existing liscence, and build tune 3 with a little help as part of a learning process?

If you wanted to get a Cable kit and download the software you can start with a Stock ROM and just build from there. You can basically start modifying little things as you go and learn as you want. There is a lot to learn if you are starting from square one, but if you have some good resources for info it's not an impossible task. Just make sure you do a lot of research and reading to make sure you aren't modifying the wrong things or modifying the right things too much.

You could always flash back to your custom Pro-tunes at any time, so that's an advantage.

Originally Posted by jamesm

no it is not. your entire rom is locked. bullshit, i know. you can ask him to unlock it for you, but most won't.

It's not "bullshit". That's your opinion.

We know you had an issue with a local tuner you chose to go with and he didn't get you taken care of the right way. Not ALL tuners are like the guy you had issues with. For that matter, he wasn't even an Ecutek tuner, so that's not even a fair comparison.

You should really stop bashing all tuners and lumping them into the same category.

If you feel you don't want to pay for a Pro-tune that's fine. If you want to tune your own car, that's fine too. But your choice is Your choice, it is not the only choice.

Lets keep it friendly and factual in here so everybody benefits and knows what their options are without bias


-Tristan

[s2d4]

^someone jumped the gun and over reacted, reading helps.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

It's not "bullshit". That's your opinion.

We know you had an issue with a local tuner you chose to go with and he didn't get you taken care of the right way. Not ALL tuners are like the guy you had issues with. For that matter, he wasn't even an Ecutek tuner, so that's not even a fair comparison.

You should really stop bashing all tuners and lumping them into the same category.

If you feel you don't want to pay for a Pro-tune that's fine. If you want to tune your own car, that's fine too. But your choice is Your choice, it is not the only choice.

Lets keep it friendly and factual in here so everybody benefits and knows what their options are without bias


-Tristan

Wow... touchy . I didn't say pro tuning was bullshit, actually quite the opposite. I said locking roms people paid you to create bespoke to their vehicle on behalf of them with their money is bullshit. Big difference. Did you even read the entire thread?

[Circuit Motorsports]

Originally Posted by s2d4

^someone jumped the gun and over reacted, reading helps.

We did, you just didn't understand our response

Originally Posted by jamesm

Wow... touchy . I didn't say pro tuning was bullshit, actually quite the opposite. I said locking roms people paid you to create bespoke to their vehicle on behalf of them with their money is bullshit. Big difference. Did you even read the entire thread?

I was exactly referring to that. I know a lot of your negativity comes from a bad experience you had with another Opensource tuner.

I'm not overreacting or arguing, I am stating a fact.

I'm not going to get drawn into another - "Why won't tuners unlock their ROMs" debate. It's been beaten to death on the forums. People on here know why. Whether you agree with it or not is your opinion. What I say here won't change your mind, or any of the other's who think that what we do is against their beliefs, so it's a pointless effort.

I just wanted to point out the members options on self tuning and reply to your comment to make something clear.


-Tristan

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Circuit Motorsports

We did, you just didn't understand our response




I was exactly referring to that. I know a lot of your negativity comes from a bad experience you had with another Opensource tuner.

I'm not overreacting or arguing, I am stating a fact.

I'm not going to get drawn into another - "Why won't tuners unlock their ROMs" debate. It's been beaten to death on the forums. People on here know why. Whether you agree with it or not is your opinion. What I say here won't change your mind, or any of the other's who think that what we do is against their beliefs, so it's a pointless effort.

I just wanted to point out the members options on self tuning and reply to your comment to make something clear.


-Tristan

i'm pretty sure the only negativity in this thread is coming from you, but whatever. we don't agree. and you weren't replying to anything i said. you're comment had nothing at all to do with anything i said in this thread. it's almost as if you were responding to something you assumed i had said, when in fact i had pretty much said the exact opposite. it was completely off-base and out of nowhere, but yeah.... whatever lol.