Forced Induction Buyer's Guide | $5,000 +/- (otd) | Daily Driver Spec

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by ecko04

Cool man. I'm not trying to drag this out. I just want to get focused back to what the OP asked because I think it's an interesting question and there are quite a few builds that fall into the parameters.

It's one thing to look online and see prices but it's another when an actual owner posts of their out of pocket expenses as it pertains FI.

True. I have yet to still see a TMIC kit for this, but I doubt if it's possible becuase of the very low mounted hood, and unknown heating problems that could come up.

[1086]

This is definitely not about S/C vs. T/C - that is not what this thread is intended for. My intention was to propose and quantify all things considered for a Daily Driver type FI spec, no matter which FI type decision you make. This will hopefully help people wrap their head around total cost for the kit + complimentary extras for a safe/modest build as well as critical variables to consider in this arguably low budget range. thank you

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

My reasoning is strictly because the CARB Superchargers offer a plug and play option. You just put it on the car, flash the ECU, and you're good to go with an extremely conservative tune. The kits just *happen* to all be priced at about 5k in that trim. Supporting mods are not required (although recommended), as they are with turbo setups.

Not all turbo setups require supporting mods either, and certain ones are also supplied with a conservative basemap.

[cdrazic93]

So, while the turbo kits may have been mostly explained, any supercharged owners would like to chime in on their total kit cost (+supporting mods if any) and overall impression with the kit?

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

True. I have yet to still see a TMIC kit for this, but I doubt if it's possible becuase of the very low mounted hood, and unknown heating problems that could come up.

FMIC is better for cooling & airflow, though. A TMIC would require an entirely new hood design with a significant power bulge & air scoop.

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[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

FMIC is better for cooling & airflow, though. A TMIC would require an entirely new hood design with a significant power bulge & air scoop.

So a scoop more pronouced than this?
http://www.rksport.com/product-p/rk-435.htm

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Not all turbo setups require supporting mods either, and certain ones arebalso supplied with a conservative basemap.

Your statement is also true, Paul. As you understand our position in creating power effectively, efficiently, safely, and reliably, we gravitate towards the best and proven products on the market as somewhat loosely demonstrated in our testing, our personal opinions, and on our fairly unfinished website (typing up each individual item is time consuming).

We need a car out here with an AVO kit to play with. Send one over!!!

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

So, while the turbo kits may have been mostly explained, any supercharged owners would like to chime in on their total kit cost (+supporting mods if any) and overall impression with the kit?

I'll chime in on the CSG BRZ 2.0 + supporting mods:
Jackson Racing Supercharger Kit (CARB Legal)
Jackson Racing Oil Cooler Kit (pending official release)

Total MSRP: ~$4995 + oil cooler kit ($$$) = ~sub-$6k

I don't talk much on the board, but I'll offer my personal opinion. Power is linear. I drive a S2000 as a daily and put anywhere around 1000 to 3000 miles per month on track setup. The power feels similar to the S2000 powerband, but torque increases linearly from idle to redline so the JR kit feels like it pulls to redline.

As @CSG Mike pointed out, power isn't sustained without the oil cooler kit on any FI setup. Think 15 back to back dyno pulls with zero cool down time to quantify power numbers. On track, you'll pull on S2000s for a bit, but eventually your acceleration equalizes as the oil temperature goes up. This is the same for any turbocharged BRZ/FRS. There is quite a bit of urgency to increase cooling capacity for turbo kits over supercharger kits for track use, however, it isn't ABSOLUTELY necessary to do so for daily use. While everybody is impartial to their own setups, keep in mind, we've tested quite a few kits available on the market and observed some prototypes in the testing phases for quite a long time. There is no need to push any negative opinions on the board. We just speak from the experiences we've had with the kits and hope we're doing a good job providing positive feedback.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

So a scoop more pronouced than this?
http://www.rksport.com/product-p/rk-435.htm

Oh yeah. And bigger bulge. You have to leave room for the TMIC underneath the hood & give it sufficient clearance above the intake manifold.

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[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by CSG David

There is quite a bit of urgency to increase cooling capacity for turbo kits over supercharger kits for track use, however, it isn't ABSOLUTELY necessary to do so for daily use.

I'll be honest, I'm not one to adhere to...the speed "suggestions" (I have 5 speeding citations...of my 4 years of driving)

I may need that oil cooler for my kind of driving lol

[SirBrass]

The new JDL basic turbo kit is going for sub $4k (no fuel mods or tune included), which is, I think, the cheapest FI kit to boot for this platform

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[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Oh yeah. And bigger bulge. You have to leave room for the TMIC underneath the hood & give it sufficient clearance above the intake manifold.

I would seriously consider forking up my car if I could be a prototype stage 1 base turbo kit utalizing a modified version of that hood.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

I'll be honest, I'm not one to adhere to...the speed "suggestions" (I have 5 speeding citations...of my 4 years of driving)

I may need that oil cooler for my kind of driving lol

Well uh...we have lots of stories on that, but let's not publicly talk about it...

Oil cooler is nice to have for daily; VERY nice to have for track if you want to have sustained performance and reliability.

[tendogy]

If it is relevant to point out that including an AFR gauge in your budget is safer for your engine, then it is equally relevant to point out that including your OEM front crash beam in your budget is safer for the occupants.


I'll elaborate on my simplified supercharger budget from page 2. Based on the supercharger powerband analysis I performed and the research I have done, I have narrowed my car's future into one of these four builds (2 Jackson, 2 Vortech).





The "Stage 0" builds each have pretty much all the bells and whistles, but they lack an ECUTEK cable for my very own. Since I'll have a local dyno tuner, I don't think I'll need this. If I change my mind later, it is the easiest thing to add on later.

I also already own a Scangauge II that allows me to monitor IAT, coolant temp, and oil temp. The ECUTEK cable would require disconnecting the Scangauge.

The "Stage 1" builds add a full exhaust, but the cost/benefit ratio is really not there. At least on the Rotrex kits, this 36% increase in cost only results in a 2.5% increase of Area-Under-Curve(AUC) power (53.6% vs 56.1%). The Stage 0 Jackson build has a cost of $117 per percent of AUC increase but the Stage 1 Jackson build has a cost of $153 per %AUC.

On the Vortech side, fuel upgrades are noticeably absent. I have seen growing evidence that upgraded fuel injectors/pumps on the Vortech kit keep the HP plot from leveling out at around 6k RPM and it instead keeps climbing until redline.

Until I am confident this is true, I'm not going to spend the money on them. I would also recommend you to keep your eye on the Rotrex dyno plots as people add fuel upgrades to those cars. The Rotrex plots currently stop climbing around the same area, but I don't believe I've seen a Rotrex plot yet with upgraded fuel bits.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by tendogy

If it is relevant to point out that including an AFR gauge in your budget is safer for your engine, then it is equally relevant to point out that including your OEM front crash beam in your budget is safer for the occupants.


I'll elaborate on my simplified supercharger budget from page 2. Based on the supercharger powerband analysis I performed and the research I have done, I have narrowed my car's future into one of these four builds (2 Jackson, 2 Vortech).





The "Stage 0" builds each have pretty much all the bells and whistles, but they lack an ECUTEK cable for my very own. Since I'll have a local dyno tuner, I don't think I'll need this. If I change my mind later, it is the easiest thing to add on later.

I also already own a Scangauge II that allows me to monitor IAT, coolant temp, and oil temp. The ECUTEK cable would require disconnecting the Scangauge.

The "Stage 1" builds add a full exhaust, but the cost/benefit ratio is really not there. At least on the Rotrex kits, this 36% increase in cost only results in a 2.5% increase of Area-Under-Curve(AUC) power (53.6% vs 56.1%). The Stage 0 Jackson build has a cost of $117 per percent of AUC increase but the Stage 1 Jackson build has a cost of $153 per %AUC.

On the Vortech side, fuel upgrades are noticeably absent. I have seen growing evidence that upgraded fuel injectors/pumps on the Vortech kit keep the HP plot from leveling out at around 6k RPM and it instead keeps climbing until redline.

Until I am confident this is true, I'm not going to spend the money on them. I would also recommend you to keep your eye on the Rotrex dyno plots as people add fuel upgrades to those cars. The Rotrex plots currently stop climbing around the same area, but I don't believe I've seen a Rotrex plot yet with upgraded fuel bits.

I would recommend that you save your money, and not bother with the boost gauge and wideband. Here's my reasoning.

If you're bleeding/leaking boost, you'll know. The power simply won't be there. A boost tune will be perfectly fine running the car without boost.

The factory narrowband bottoms out at about 12:1 AFR. This is rich enough that being lower won't be an issue (unless you're so rich the car will barely idle). It does, however, accurately read up to 18:1 AFR, and maxes out at 20:1 AFR.

Case in point: CSG is willing to spend money on mods, but we run neither a boost gauge nor aftermarket wideband, and we test our cars to the limits. We don't feel the need for it. Use any OBD2 reader to keep track of the factory sensors for peace of mind; we do. I also think gauge pods look really tacky.


Side note: Fuel should not the limitation with both supercharger setups unless you have extensive breathing mods.