Forced Induction Buyer's Guide | $5,000 +/- (otd) | Daily Driver Spec

[tendogy]

From the linked thread for the MAP Performance kit:

The only major thing will be the fuel pump in my opinon followed by the cutting of the crash beam bar for the intercooler pipe. But you can always go with our optional crash beam bar that will be bolt-on.

Emphasis mine. If a buyer truly wants to know "which kit will provide the safest/daily driver approachable set up" then this is not it. Chopping up the front crash beam is not safe, and destroys the car's ability to distribute crash loads in a frontal collision.

Replacing the front crash beam with their optional replacement increases the price (won't know how much until it's actually released), and I would need to see crash testing data before I trusted the safety of my wife/kid/friends to that replacement bar.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by tendogy

From the linked thread for the MAP Performance kit:



Emphasis mine. If a buyer truly wants to know "which kit will provide the safest/daily driver approachable set up" then this is not it. Chopping up the front crash beam is not safe, and destroys the car's ability to distribute crash loads in a frontal collision.

Replacing the front crash beam with their optional replacement increases the price (won't know how much until it's actually released), and I would need to see crash testing data before I trusted the safety of my wife/kid/friends to that replacement bar.

That's a good point.

There is a replacement crash beam for $150. Added to the cost of my post with a link.

[tendogy]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

There is a replacement crash beam for $150.

It's everyone's right to take their own risks with their own car, for sure. Having said that, there is no way I would ever replace the OEM beam with a steel tube.

Three reasons:

1) No testing. This community goes on and on about whether or not performance claims have been track tested, heat-soak tested, tested on e85, tested at altitude, etc etc etc. But then we're willing to slap a $150 piece of steel tube with zero testing on our car and trust it to protect us in a collision? That's super crazy.

2) The device does not even claim to offer occupant collision protection. First, it's called a "Drift Bar" not a "Crash Beam." Second, the product description says nothing about occupant protection:

It protects critical front end components and provide additional protection to expensive headlight assemblies and body panels.

I take that to mean that it offers protection to front-end components at very low speeds, but claims no ability to distribute offset frontal crash loads.

3) There are so many FI options for this car that retain the OEM crash beam, why would you choose one that introduces collision protection concerns? Full Blown has specifically stated:

When designing our kit, we thought of ways to route the piping without hacking the car up and that is why we routed our piping the way it is.

I don't know. Like I said, everyone can obviously choose for themselves, but to me Power is the #2 priority and Occupant Protection is the #1 priority.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16CIDz4pAxo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16CIDz4pAxo[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Would the heat soaking be different if you held the car at full boost for the same amount of time? or does the repeated cooling and heating cycle compound the heat within the engine bay?

Unless you have a dyno that can load the car, and absorb the entire output, you wouldn't be able to sustain full boost for an extended period of time.

We have our tuning done on this type of dyno (dynapack), but dynojet results are more popular, so we generally post dynojet numbers. In reality, our car sees all sorts of dynos, as we like to know where we stand on different platforms.

This is what a dynapack looks like; it connects directly to the hubs, and can sustain load or a given RPM.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by tendogy

It's everyone's right to take their own risks with their own car, for sure. Having said that, there is no way I would ever replace the OEM beam with a steel tube.

Agreed on all accounts. I didn't mean to say my post is the absolute best option, the only option or anything, just that it is another option. I understand and agree that Safety IS #1 over anything.

It's all a matter to whom is willing to compromise and what. The beauty of it all is the amount of options available.

Thanks for bringing light to the matter because I do agree its one of the most (if not the single most) important criteria to consider.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Unless you have a dyno that can load the car, and absorb the entire output, you wouldn't be able to sustain full boost for an extended period of time.

So the best way to go about it would to have a test car with a kit and run on a dyno at full boost and see where the problems are with heating and cooling, then start making prototypes of the venting/cooling nessecary to combat, or atleast help the extended heat soak? IMO this engine seems to have a lot of resistance to cooling solutions. Not cool

[kayoh]

I vote for sticky as well, this thread has easily become one of my favorites and is extremely information.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

So the best way to go about it would to have a test car with a kit and run on a dyno at full boost and see where the problems are with heating and cooling, then start making prototypes of the venting/cooling nessecary to combat, or atleast help the extended heat soak? IMO this engine seems to have a lot of resistance to cooling solutions.

The best way? Yes. This is how engines are developed for race cars, except they're in a test cell with a controlled environment (even the air going into the engine intake can be 100% controlled: composition, humidity, temperature, etc.).

Is this how all aftermarket manufacturers and FI kit manufacturers do it? No.

I can say that the Jackson Racing kit and tune was developed using a dyno like the one pictured above (it was actually the dyno one bay over from the one pictured; this facility houses 5 sets of dynos).

A dynapack allows for a full range of tuning. For example, under normal driving conditions, you could be at 3000 RPM with 0 throttle (decelerating), light throttle (cruising), medium throttle (easy acceleration), or full throttle (WOT!). The dynapack can hold the engine at 3000RPM, and allow you to go through the *entire* range of throttle positions, from 0 throttle to full throttle, and tune for the entire range.

[1086]

This is great - its like Forced Induction Theory Crafting for cars - I love it!

@Sportsguy83 - thank you for the 2nd build suggestion! Its up on the original post now

@tendogy - thank you for providing some critical considerations (i.e. safety, car integrity, etc.) when applying upgrades such as these. I will note your safety points on the original post as well so people are aware of what they might have to expect.

[tendogy]

Wahoo, I got my "thank" button today!

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Agreed on all accounts. ... I understand and agree that Safety IS #1 over anything.

For sure, and I definitely wasn't attacking you or anybody, it's just a topic I'm passionate about. Back in '09 I was driving my tC straight through an intersection and an old SUV coming the other direction tried to turn left in front of me because he didn't see me. No time for me to stop so I tried to maneuver in front of him, and he tried to accelerate out of my way, and wham bam you have a 45mph frontal offset collision like the one in the video I linked.

If you've not been in one before, it sucks pretty bad (concussion + potential PTSD + totaled car) and I kid you not, my last thought before impact was, "I'm glad this car has good safety ratings."

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by 1086

This is great - its like Forced Induction Theory Crafting for cars - I love it!

Totally OT: WoW or SC player?

Rumor has it there are some Master league players and Light of Dawns on this board...

[1086]

I play (when I have time) Star Craft 2 and Dota 2 mostly.
Interesting! Bring 'em out bring 'em out...

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The best way? Yes. This is how engines are developed for race cars, except they're in a test cell with a controlled environment (even the air going into the engine intake can be 100% controlled: composition, humidity, temperature, etc.).

Is this how all aftermarket manufacturers and FI kit manufacturers do it ? No.

It seems the recommended oil is too thin, most have switched to 0W-40 or 5w-30. Also searched a bit on the forums and found that the ideal street oil temps are between 170-190 for street use. While 200-230 seems to be the consensus on oil temp for track use. An interesting thing I found was there is such a thing as too big of a radiator. Just some cents for people looking for better cooling options. More info here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=38953&page=3

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Totally OT: WoW or SC player?

Rumor has it there are some Master league players and Light of Dawns on this board...

Not exactly a computer gamer but I am an avid racing game fan, with my bias towards GT6 tho no hate on forza, great game!