Wait for 2015 motor or buy now?

[Mikem53]

Don't be so sure.. Other car companies have done it..
My 2008 C6 had the LS3 when the same car in 05 had the LS2. The 08 got a new engine and tranny change in a little over 2 years time. These weren't minor changes either. It's not like they have to scrap what they have and start over..
It makes sense as technologies move forward and the market dictates the needs..

Originally Posted by quasi86

Why would they come out with a new engine for this car only after two production years?

I mean these two companies spent millions researching and developing, testing, tweaking, adding, subtracting to create the FA20.

Why on gods green earth would they just scrap it and start all over? Because a small group of people, "enthusiasts" said it needs "a little bit more power". Half the people on this forum claiming they know the answer to solve this cars shortcomings prolly don't even own one.

Dudes THERE'S NO NEW ENGINE. despite what the trolls tell you it its in no way feasible or an option that a CORPORATE board would approve.

They sold what 30k FR-S, well they sold nearly 300k Corolla and that didn't get the money for a redesigned engine. Why? You ask, because if it ain't broke why fix it.

Both of these vehicles are successful and the engines match up with what their intended purpose is.

Bigger, faster, stronger, turbo, sc, are all just added cost. Hell it cost $5k to get any decent kit aftermarket. And I grantee that these systems would in no way meet Toyota standard for longevity, therefore new internals, fuel systems, tires, brakes would be needed. Then you have a $35k, 275 HP FR-S. I can see that sales number from 2013 and what will be in 2014 fall like a rock.

Not to call anybody out, but the guy with the Raven FR-S in the Philippines (one of my favorite looking cars on this forum) put the Vortech in his car cause he wanted that extra kick on track days.
well his time got less than 3 seconds faster that his best while NA! I know in racing world that's like 30 car lengths but damn is it worth it? 3 second faster around a 1.5 mile track. Thrilling!

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

[thill]

I don't see them scraping the current engine either. You might see a more powerful STI or TRD version down the road that will cost a lot more money, but I see the stock engine sticking around with perhaps some minor tweaks to it.

[Braces]

Originally Posted by thill

I don't see them scraping the current engine either. You might see a more powerful STI or TRD version down the road that will cost a lot more money, but I see the stock engine sticking around with perhaps some minor tweaks to it.

Exactly. We should see minor HP bumps when the next facelift 86 arrives. When ... who knows? Simple remaps, intake/exhaust factory mods should easily provide 10-20hp bumps with the existing power plant. I really believe that an automaker, to remain relevant with all the other future competition, and to entice more buyers to the 86 platform .... small HP bumps are necessary. I would be surprised to see an entirely different motor. My 0.02.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Braces

Simple remaps, intake/exhaust factory mods should easily provide 10-20hp bumps with the existing power plant.

I see this line of thought every time this subject comes up. If they could get 10 more hp with a tune and some intake/exhaust tweaking without sacrificing emissions, reliability or fuel economy why didn't they?

It's far from 'simple' when you're engineering a mass market vehicle. If it was easy the car would have been rated at 210 hp from the get go. Power isn't free.

[Braces]

Strat .... I think you're missing my point. As a business model .... car manufacturers produce a car with a baseline HP level. I'm sure you will agree that Toyobaru didn't just plan this 86 with no future plan on it's future upgrades. Usually every future iteration of car models come with planned "minimal" HP increases. They're not going to design an initial powerplant that has already reached it's maximum HP potential. They start on the low side and increase the HP incrementally over it's design cycle. It's business. More HP sells ... at least in America. Again ... just another forum opinion.

[JRobes]

Originally Posted by Braces

Strat .... I think you're missing my point. As a business model .... car manufacturers produce a car with a baseline HP level. I'm sure you will agree that Toyobaru didn't just plan this 86 with no future plan on it's future upgrades. Usually every future iteration of car models come with planned "minimal" HP increases. They're not going to design an initial powerplant that has already reached it's maximum HP potential. They start on the low side and increase the HP incrementally over it's design cycle. It's business. More HP sells ... at least in America. Again ... just another forum opinion.

its not all business. it takes time to perfectly engineer anything. you make the first model, release it, and then make the incremental revisions you mentioned to better the product as long as it has the market demand to do so. Once you reach it's optimized capabilities, you move on to the next design. This is the case with engines, manufacturing processes, parts, etc. I see this all the time in my company (I'm a Mech. Design Engineer). That being said, i do expect that a upgraded engine of some sort (either FI, larger displacement, or some auxiliary power source) in the coming years... and when that happens I'll be ready to buy.

[strat61caster]

@Braces I understand your argument very well. I also understand product development. My challenge is not to whether or not it is possible to squeeze out an extra 10 hp or that down the road a more powerful version could be offered, but rather the "simple" & "easy" part of it.

There was a lot of time, effort, and money spent JUST to reach the 200 hp target. Early articles Tada claimed that without direct injection they were only getting 160 hp out of 2L while meeting emissions targets. D4S was the solution and it is not a simple system.

It's easy to look at the aftermarket tunes and exhausts/intakes and say it's "easy" but there's a lot more testing, verification, and analysis that goes into an OEM product, they have a much more difficult task than to 'make mo powah' philosophy the aftermarket has.

It's not like they have all the designs ready for a 220hp motor sitting on a shelf somewhere and all it costs is an extra $x per car while their engineers work on the next corolla/impreza, engine design is a very complicated process.

[tomato86]

Heck look at the hp the R35 started with compared to now

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by tomato86

Heck look at the hp the R35 started with compared to now

Hefty price increase as well

[Sport-Tech]

The "why wait?" argument only works in certain contexts. Most people are not buying a car for the first time; they currently own one (or more) vehicles and so the question is what is the value added in switching cars. The times I test drove the FR-S I loved it but it did not feel significantly quicker than my 140 hp, 2560 lb Tiburon - I suspect partially due to the torque dip vs. the Tib's much flatter torque curve. Did it handle better? You bet! But the visibility is not as good in any direction, the car felt a little heavier (which is is, by 200 lbs) and the steering feel was not as immediate either. So I decided to stay with my 35k-miles Tiburon for the time being because the jump up to the twins was not great enough to be worth the money to me (others' MMV). Had the car come in at 240 hp/190 ft-lb I have no doubt I would be driving one today, even if had cost a few thousand more. When it gets that bump up, I will be the first to order (if the competition at the time has nothing better on offer).

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

The "why wait?" argument only works in certain contexts.

Your scenario is different from someone who is comparing the current car to a hypothetical car.

You decided that keeping your Hyundai was better for you than buying a '13/'14 Toyobaru.

Most people here are saying that they love the car as it is today but maybe if they wait they can get a better one in 2+ years (see OP that this thread is based off of). If it was set in stone that there would not be any changes over the Toyobaru's lifetime these people would probably buy the car that exists today as soon as they could to enjoy it as much as possible. You would not because it isn't a significant enough improvement from your current vehicle.

You're right, all advice is situational and anecdotal around here.

[BRZPDX]

I just can't imagine them dumping more money in to developing an upgraded version of the FR-S/BRZ with such small market/margins. I've said this on another thread, but aesthetic upgrade is all I see for the future of this car. New body kits, GT86 head light options, perhaps some intake/exhaust etc. I can see a very limited production "freak of nature" sort of model that people can order, which may have FI or upgraded motor, for a higher price.

Or it will be a completely different line, marketed as "STI" or "TRD" version, which will be $5k more base price, with limited production. Then it will start competing with Mustangs/Camaros/370Z etc. I think the base model of this car is in its own category at the moment, maybe competitors will be Miata's and Focus ST.

With the development of the FT1, this car will stay as is, entry model sports car. If you don't like it, then go the next step up to FT1, I don't think there needs to be anything in between.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by BRZPDX

With the development of the FT1, this car will stay as is, entry model sports car. If you don't like it, then go the next step up to FT1, I don't think there needs to be anything in between.

Exactly, someone gets it. With development and push to get a true Toyota contendor the FT-1 "supra" whatever it becomes there isn't a push to feed the 86 on a power quest. For those waiting you're waisting time IMO....budget a FI add on aftermarket now and enjoy it or buy a different car all together. Those are the common sense choices. I bought this car for it's driving experience and looks I didn't care about power as that's easy dropping in a SC or TC and honestly nothing else up to even 50k looks near as good. IMO of course...

[yomny]

Well to get this thread back on track. I got a new FRS and not the one with the increased power ...same, good old 2013 whiteout FRS and couldn't be happier. Thanks to all those who helped with their input. I decided to get this because, the price was great being that the 2014 are already out. They hooked it up with free stuff, including a spoiler, LED drls and a few other things. I figured i most likely will be going FI so no point in waiting. Thanks again.. keep on rambling

Nothing new but man this is a nice car to drive.