This is not a winter car! Fed up! May end up selling...

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Canehda

Because an M3 isn't tail happy, it has a lot of power which can make it seem tail happy but if you put enough power into any car that has more than 50% wheel rear drive bias capability it can seem tail happy...

I think you'll find an M3 is quite tail happy, nobody tries to ice race them. However, I concede the M cars are the only BMW worth actually buying.

BMW are unaccountably popular. Most people who buy then don't seem to know how to drive. They are all hopeless winter cars. You have to buy the X drive to have a winter BMW. They are truly hopeless otherwise.

Porsche 911 are also tricky to drive because they understeer very badly at low speeds and then oversteer if you are on anything slippery. Even the newest ones aren't easy to drive.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by that_guy

HAHAHA. You lost all credibility right there with that statement....not that you had any to lose by this point anyways, but I think you get the point...(or do you?).

Understeer is NOT faster and no one races ever attempts to set their car up to achieve it.

..

You're just wrong and, indeed, you cannot be right. A car must be set up to understeer to have any hope of getting its power down in a corner.

The friction circle analysis will help you understand why this is so.

ALL cars have to understeer to initiate a corner. Understeer defined is slip angles at the front axle exceeding slip angle at the rear axle. That's what understeer means. What I'm complaining about is this car doesn't understeer enough to put its modest power down, proved conclusively by its hopeless winter handling. Actually, it didn't really work well on any road surface but with good enough tires to overwhelm the torque it can be made to drive fairly well on dry pavement.

You will note that the BRZ has positive camber at the front axle and negative camber at the rear. The front bar is 18 mm while the rear bar is 14 mm and the spring rates generate understeer.

The way in which Toyota got this car to oversteer under such modest power is interesting but it's not because the chassis isn't set up to understeer. It just isn't set up with enough understeer.

Anyone bandying around auto cross, or even to some extent track conditions is missing the point of this thread completely.

Gosh this is fun, like shooting fish in a barrel ....

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by s2d4

^
Brain capacity could be lacking too.

Sorry, very high IQ, very high, so that's not the problem. Try again.

Could be you have an intellectual deficit though. I'd bet money my IQ is far higher than yours and I don't even know you. Just statistically it is very unlikely your IQ comes even close to mine. Heck, even the nuclear engineer probably isn't in the same league as me.

You should know that cranial capacity does not correlate to IQ, although I also have a big head, statistically speaking.

To avoid cheap shots in reply I can advise that my large head is indeed full of brain in the cranium. Also, high IQ doesn't necessarily equate to superior knowledge but from personal experience I can say it helps a lot.

Also, this arrogant and egotistical rejoinder is to a ridiculously personal criticism that has no place in this thread or on this board. If you're going to get personal at least be amusing or clever about it.

I never cast the first stone, ever.

[Dipstik-sportech]

I like soup

The Frozen North

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Suberman

You're just wrong and, indeed, you cannot be right. A car must be set up to understeer to have any hope of getting its power down in a corner.

The friction circle analysis will help you understand why this is so.

ALL cars have to understeer to initiate a corner. Understeer defined is slip angles at the front axle exceeding slip angle at the rear axle. That's what understeer means. What I'm complaining about is this car doesn't understeer enough to put its modest power down, proved conclusively by its hopeless winter handling. Actually, it didn't really work well on any road surface but with good enough tires to overwhelm the torque it can be made to drive fairly well on dry pavement.

You will note that the BRZ has positive camber at the front axle and negative camber at the rear. The front bar is 18 mm while the rear bar is 14 mm and the spring rates generate understeer.

The way in which Toyota got this car to oversteer under such modest power is interesting but it's not because the chassis isn't set up to understeer. It just isn't set up with enough understeer.

Anyone bandying around auto cross, or even to some extent track conditions is missing the point of this thread completely.

Gosh this is fun, like shooting fish in a barrel ....

I really hope (for your clients' sake, if you have any) that you're better at checking facts for anything going to a court room than you are at checking facts about cars.

You can use big words all you want, but at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

[Hardy]

I just noticed the thread tags! +1000 to whoever was responsible for that!

[wparsons]

Wasn't me, but I find them amusing too.

FYI, anyone can edit the tags. To the right of the tags is a link to edit them.

[gt8613]

Fj cruiser👍


Sent from my RM-940_nam_att_200 using Tapatalk

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Sorry, very high IQ, very high, so that's not the problem. Try again.

Could be you have an intellectual deficit though. I'd bet money my IQ is far higher than yours and I don't even know you. Just statistically it is very unlikely your IQ comes even close to mine. Heck, even the nuclear engineer probably isn't in the same league as me.

Good luck with that.

[Ralph Spoilsport]

IQ . You do know that "IQ" is "measured" by multiple choice exams, yes? It's not exactly heavy intellectual lifting.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Jerry jerry jerry!!!!!!

The Frozen North

[7thgear]

i don't even know what the thread is about anymore, i don't have the stamina to keep up.

[FiRStsc10n]

"I think for reasons that are extremely difficult to explain to regular human beings, us petrol heads prefer oversteer" - Jeremy Clarkson.

[ame="http://vimeo.com/59415579"]http://vimeo.com/59415579[/ame]

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Ralph Spoilsport

IQ . You do know that "IQ" is "measured" by multiple choice exams, yes? It's not exactly heavy intellectual lifting.

OK, good luck on your LSAT.