BRZ/FRS vs 2015 WRX

[radroach]

Originally Posted by njccmd2002

well the frs is fun and all, but i live in an area that is dull to drive, all straight, not many curbs.

You can't find good roads around Jackson? I thought Milan TN was all glorious backroads, if a little flat.

But can understand if the FR-S suspension is a little too rough for riding on those roads. I'd rather have a WRX out there too.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by horrorbiz

The current model WRX and STI dyno exactly the same. You can check out Cobb's database on their website. The STI is slightly faster on the track, but for daily driving the WRX is faster due to the gear ratio. Car and Driver had the WRX faster to 60 and the quarter mile.

Also looks like the '15 STI still uses the EJ25, sadly.

Current models can't dyno the same. Their BHP's are different. Now, the current gen WRX has a BHP that is about 20HP higher than the STI's WHP.

Also, from having driven both a GR WRX and a GR STI (the current gen's, though I had an 08 WRX, so before the power bump in 09) the STI is significantly faster. Part of it is also the reason is lags behind in the 1/4: the close ratio 6spd. The WRX has fewer gear changes during the pull, so of course it's about the same as it's faster big brother. The STI is still the more powerful by far, with better suspension as well, though it is heavier too.

And yeah the new STI still sporting the EJ... that's sad. Looks like we'll be waiting about another year for a power bump. Kind of like how it took them a year between the new GR chassis in the WRX and the power bump it recieved in 09.

Still, I'd like to see how much better the STI will be with a turbo'd FA block in it. It's probably going to finally spank the Evo solidly with it, I'm betting.

[horrorbiz]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Current models can't dyno the same. Their BHP's are different. Now, the current gen WRX has a BHP that is about 20HP higher than the STI's WHP.

Also, from having driven both a GR WRX and a GR STI (the current gen's, though I had an 08 WRX, so before the power bump in 09) the STI is significantly faster. Part of it is also the reason is lags behind in the 1/4: the close ratio 6spd. The WRX has fewer gear changes during the pull, so of course it's about the same as it's faster big brother. The STI is still the more powerful by far, with better suspension as well, though it is heavier too.

And yeah the new STI still sporting the EJ... that's sad. Looks like we'll be waiting about another year for a power bump. Kind of like how it took them a year between the new GR chassis in the WRX and the power bump it recieved in 09.

The advertised BHP's can be fudged... especially when the STI needs to be faster. Facts are facts though and countless dyno's don't lie.

You can check out the Cobb dyno database here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/Dyno-Database-s/70119.htm

Also, here's Car & Driver comparing the 2011 WRX and STI (which is the same through 2014) http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...sti-sedan-test

The 08 WRX is known to be the worst year for the WRX. The power was significantly bumped with the 09 year.

My 2011 WRX made about 255whp stock, which is normal, according to Cobb's dyno database. This means the WRX is VERY underrated by Subaru.

[JS + BRZ]

In terms of straightline performance, +09 WRX are pretty similar to its STi variants. Don't know what makes you think STi is "much" faster than WRX.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by njccmd2002

is the STI worth the 10K price tag, the only sti hatchback they have near me is 39K, which has an added navigation, and other crap, but i cant make 1000 usd, is that possible dealer market adjustment?

http://www.subarumemphis.com/new/Sub...2f16796359.htm

Shop for a used STI in stock form. Avoid cars with aftermarket power mods. You can find a lot of 2004-2008s for under 20k... They do 0-150mph FAST, but the fuel economy sucks compared to the BRZ (at best ~20mpg stock). At under 20k, the STI is a STEAL. If you dump a bunch of money into them, some tuners have upped the MPG, but you need big bucks. Otherwise, people usually get even worse, as low as 10mpg.

I got my 2005 back in fall of 05 used with 8k miles for $6k off sticker and it came with a bunch of accessories like the titanium shift knob and boost gauge. I've done 1100 mile days comfortably from Toledo, OH to Dallas, TX and the car has been to the edge of the USA from east to west, north and south. The engines in the older cars are pretty much bulletproof in stock form. It's when dumb-asses start putting on headers and CAIs with no ECU tuning that crap starts going kaboom.

I've flogged my STI for over 90,000 miles and the engine looks like new when the oil pan is dropped. I generally get 17-20mpg no matter how gentle or fast I drive. The only thing I've done to the engine is a short ram K&N intake, which helped throttle response and maybe added a bit of power. Lightweight flywheel and the ACT Streetlite clutch made the car rev and clamp down a bit better. Otherwise, no power mods. I don't need to go over 155 MPH and the car has started up fine in temps as low as -19F last Monday... It's not a cheap car to own, but it's stupid-fun.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by JS + MS3

In terms of straightline performance, +09 WRX are pretty similar to its STi variants. Don't know what makes you think STi is "much" faster than WRX.

With simple power mods, a WRX can be a lot faster than a stock STI. However, the stock STI engine can handle a lot more power mod for mod.

STI suspension isn't that much better, honestly. The stock rubber bushings make the drivetrain pretty sloppy, and my car had the rear right strut creak issue at least three times. I'd say the car is set up better in stock form, not that the components are that much better. IMO, the 2008 hatchback is sloppy and disconnected from the road in stock form compared to my 2005. I hope the 2015 goes back to what the 2005 had out of the box.

[JS + BRZ]

Not talking about the mod potential.

A stock +09 WRX and stock +09 STi aren't that different in terms of straightline performance.

[horrorbiz]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Shop for a used STI in stock form. Avoid cars with aftermarket power mods. You can find a lot of 2004-2008s for under 20k...

I was looking for one for a while and I couldn't find one that was decent, under $20k. I do live in Subaru country though. They hold their value insanely well in New England.

[horrorbiz]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

However, the stock STI engine can handle a lot more power mod for mod.

This is not true. The transmission is a lot stronger, but that's about it. The short blocks are identical.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by horrorbiz

This is not true. The transmission is a lot stronger, but that's about it. The short blocks are identical.

The 2005 WRX had a 2.0L vs the STI's 2.5. It really depends on the year you pick. Later WRXs got upgraded.

The STI also got;

-DCCD
-Power steering oil cooler
-Helical LSD in the front
-AVCS (variable valve timing)
-Brembos (something to consider because BBKs aren't cheap)

If you buy an STI, it's mostly for the beefier drive train, engine, and better interior.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by horrorbiz

I was looking for one for a while and I couldn't find one that was decent, under $20k. I do live in Subaru country though. They hold their value insanely well in New England.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...Index=10&Log=0

I'm surprised I didn't find any more out your way. I wonder how many older STI owners will ditch for the 2015 when it comes out.

[horrorbiz]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

The 2005 WRX had a 2.0L vs the STI's 2.5. It really depends on the year you pick. Later WRXs got upgraded.

The STI also got;

-DCCD
-Power steering oil cooler
-Helical LSD in the front
-AVCS (variable valve timing)
-Brembos (something to consider because BBKs aren't cheap)

If you buy an STI, it's mostly for the beefier drive train, engine, and better interior.

I know, I was referring to the GR WRX. I wasn't questioning the value of the STI, I was just saying that power-wise, the WRX and STI have been equal since 2009. That doesn't mean the STI isn't better in most scenarios...

[horrorbiz]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...Index=10&Log=0

I'm surprised I didn't find any more out your way. I wonder how many older STI owners will ditch for the 2015 when it comes out.

It's funny, most of the GD STI's are selling for about the same as that one. I don't know if many will upgrade to the 2015. If it were me, I'd be waiting until an updated engine is used. The 2015 WRX seems like a better car strangely enough.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by horrorbiz

I know, I was referring to the GR WRX. I wasn't questioning the value of the STI, I was just saying that power-wise, the WRX and STI have been equal since 2009. That doesn't mean the STI isn't better in most scenarios...

I wouldn't suggest buying a 2009+ for that reason alone. You can get a 2007 or older for much less and have just about the same performance if not better. The newer cars got heavier and quieter.

It's a bit odd that they're not putting the DI in the new STI along with just how close the two models are in performance. Looks like it's also getting the same old hydraulic steering rather than the latest and greatest drive-by-wire. If the WRX has nearly the same power and gets almost 10mpg better, holy crap that's a massive blunder.