BRZ or FR-S vs. THEM ALL

[acg2010]

I'm also not so sure this car has the reliability that's come to be synonymous with japanese cars - particularly say Hondas. So, I don't think the reliability of this thing is really going to be better than a Mustang.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by acg2010

I'm also not so sure this car has the reliability that's come to be synonymous with japanese cars - particularly say Hondas. So, I don't think the reliability of this thing is really going to be better than a Mustang.

Of which thing ?

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[Lo]

Originally Posted by Simon99

Of which thing ?

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Can't speak for him, but I'm sure he's talking about the twins.

[Simon99]

That's what I though aswell but apart from the crickets and a handfull of engine failures I havent heard of any big problems yet

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[Lo]

Well, it only came out mid 2012 and we're barely starting 2014. Still too soon to judge how reliable it can be long term.

[acg2010]

Yeah, long term reliability is definitely still up in the air - but when the car has a built in "quick fix" for windows that don't work well in the cold…I'm not hugely optimistic. There have been the crickets, engine failures, direct injector seal failures, etc. The issues aren't likely to be massive (I'm not one to believe the engine failures will be that common a problem) But, I would not be surprised if the first few model years have after warranty issues that are small but start to add up to expense. I guess we'll see over the next couple of years.

Also, if you don't plan on keeping the car more than 4-5 years, you won't really have to worry about whether it's a car that will run great in 8-9 years and not need a bunch of electronic, interior or smaller component repairs.

[Simon99]

You don't think the fa20 will be reliable long term ?

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[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Hey now, Porsches like to play in the snow

In all seriousness though, I would get the 86. Insurance, maintenance, consumables etc are all going to cost a lot less, it's more practical than a Cayman, and it's still a good looking car. If looks are important to you, FWIW I definitely get more looks driving around in my BRZ than I do driving around in our 911 or 135. The only car I've driven that gets as many looks is our Lotus, and you definitely don't want one of those as an only car (also, bitches will think it's awesome* until you try to make them get in or out of it, and then they'll hate it and you). People seem to confuse the 86's with exotics or something for some reason.

* Disclaimer: bitches will actually never think that it's awesome, because bitches don't care about cars.

Ofc, what you really need is this: *

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1201

[acg2010]

Originally Posted by Simon99

You don't think the fa20 will be reliable long term ?

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Based on some of the posts from some of the knowledgable engine guys like CSG Mike and reading around (he's posted a bunch about the DI failure) - I don't think the first model year or two is as reliable an engine if you at all drive it hard (at these low hp and tq numbers, it's not like its a big V10 that you don't have to get on to have some speed etc.) Odd for a car that is touted as being a canyon carver and a good track platform.

A number of people have had oil leaking issue in the manual (the auto has something for the tranny I think in the space that the manual doesn't - see the thread in this subforum). There have been a small number of DI failures (but it's not like there were only two). There is the random RPM drop.

I think the FA20 once matured will probably be better than these first model year or two cars. But, it also depends on whether Toyota works to fix any problems. What bugs me is Toyota/Subarus' seeming either unwillingness or incompetence to find real solutions to the various problems that have come up (even something not detrimental but as annoying as the crickets). They find bandaids or they just keep trying until they get it right.

Don't misunderstand this isn't hating on or unique to the FA20 and the twins. I think a lot of cars out there are made like this these days. Profit is the name of the game and customer service with a lot of companies falls by the wayside to keep profits up. For years BMW had HPFP issues in their turbo 335 - with HPFPs actually failing, etc.

As I've seen some randomly say and I agree with - I think if you want long time truly reliable you're probably stuck with a much more boring car. These cars are sporty cars, and sports cars tend to be less durable than your average mom-mobile that has nothing fancy, nothing innovative, and a driver that isn't pushing its limits. But I do think its stupid that Toyota says to some - well don't push your car hard or to redline or w.e. when the cars advertised as that being its purpose. Again, I think a symptom of the profit attitude and the cluelessness of some dealers.

The story may also be different if you drive this car as just a daily driver and aren't pushing it all that hard or to its limits or anything like that. But, from your list at the top, it seems like you want a car that you can just toss around and have lots of fun with.

[Drobinson1692]

S2000 IMO. I'm coming from one and switching to a BRZ for med school for a bit more room. Stock for stock the s2k handles better and is faster.(it was also like 38k new so that's reasonable). Also tail happy rear end is fun + great aftermarket. It's essentially a convertible 86 with a bit more power. Bitches love convertibles.

I pm'd you btw Simon

[WolfpackS2k]

I would bet on a Mustang's reliability over the BRZ's every day of the week.

Subaru's history with high performance engines isn't exactly confidence inspiring.

[acg2010]

Gotta agree - maybe not the ecoboost yet as they have had problems but the 3.7l V6 has been pretty bulletproof since they started using it from what I've seen.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I would bet on a Mustang's reliability over the BRZ's every day of the week.

Subaru's history with high performance engines isn't exactly confidence inspiring.

Pay up... my Mustang had electrical issues since it had 3K miles...

[acg2010]

Still its an n of one. I have not seen any widespread issues with the s197 stang, particularly not any issues like the DI seal and the Cricket (yeah not likely to lead to engine failure but it is a nuissance). I've read the 197 manual trans isnt the greatest, but I dont think they were failing - I think most just did not like them.