Manual tranny takes another step into oblivion

[Jordo!]

Again, the "cranky" response is to bash autos because:

(1) They are not part of their concept of a sports car, and therefore they do not belong in sports cars -- it's an outrage to even imagine that they might.

(2) They are overly focused on the blatant limitations of older, poorly geared AT's that didn't have a solid connection with the motor (i.e., fluid coupling via torque converters) and wasted gobs of power.

(3) They often totally disregard the capability of new AT's that allow "manual" (in quotes out of respect) operation of gear shifts via paddles (i.e., rant about "poor shift logic" or being in the wrong gear -- irrelevant to modern sporty AT's)

(4) Appear to place an inordinate amount of personal worth into how well they operate a clutch pedal -- what if the opportunity to express this ability is somehow compromised thanks to lazy, text message sending subhumans who can't drive and want to ruin proper cars for the rest of us talented and serious automotive enthusiasts? Infuriating, I know!

Seriously, everyone needs to chill.

I wonder how many of the cranks would NEVER own a GT-R or a LFA -- those are NOT proper sports cars, with their silly flappy paddle gear boxes and PS3-like controls. What a joke!

Actually, I have a very good buddy who said if he owned a GT-R he'd put a 6-speed MT in it.

Then he drove one and seemed not to mind too much, just like most other folks who test drive one. He had fun too. Huh. Go figure.

Okay. End rant

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Actually... we could turn this around and argue that focusing more on steering and braking and less on gear juggling is actually preferable for safer driving.

I can only speak for myself, but shifting doesn't require focus, it's second nature. It's about as mentally strenuous as figuring out how far to move my foot to go from the accelerator to the brake pedal.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

You've never talked on the cell phone while driving? If no, is this because you cannot, given that all of your attention is on the motor and trans, or because you choose not to?

No, it's because I only have two hands. It's pretty difficult to shift into second in the middle of a left hand turn while holding a phone.

[devinclfalcons]

Formula 1 cars use Paddle Shifters and those are the pinnacle of "racing"... Nuff Said

[Jordo!]

It's called a shoulder. Phones can be held there between head and chin. Even cell phones. What about when you are traveling in a straight line with no stopping, like on a highway? Once up to cruising speed, not much shifting to do, huh?

Seriously... now.

How about the radio? Do you find a way to use that while both hands are occupied.

Actually, both hands are always supposed to be devoted primarily to the STEERING WHEEL.

Whatever -- carry on being cranky, gentlemen.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

It's called a shoulder. Phones can be held there between head and chin. Even cell phones.

Speak for yourself. I can barely do that with my home phone, much less my tiny cell phone.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

What about when you are traveling in a straight line with no stopping, like on a highway? Once up to cruising speed, not much shifting to do, huh?

At that point it's no longer a conversation about transmissions.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

How about the radio? Do you find a way to use that while both hands are occupied.

I haven't listened to the radio in ~5 years, iPod on shuffle ftw.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Whatever -- carry on being cranky, gentlemen.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Infernal]

It's not the fact that you have one hand off the wheel that causes accidents, its that your attention is on something other than driving:
if you are speaking to your boss about a problem at work that they need your help with, then you will likely have a slower reaction time to kids running out in the street or a car door opening in front of you


also, if you had a phone inbetween your ear and shoulder, you would probably be concentrating on not dropping it in the event of having to manouvre away from hazards - reducing the speed in which you could turn the wheel

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not so much the manual for manual's sake. But the attitude. People don't take driving seriously anymore. The automatic is somewhat responsible for that and the appliance attitude. If getting your license was more difficult, rather than a token test because everybody 'needs' to be able to drive, people would take it more seriously.

And a manual transmission would make an effective training filter.

do you have any study that corroborates this theory? by your logic, the US should have a much higher accident rate vs europe. is that actually the case?

Originally Posted by old greg

At that point it's no longer a conversation about transmissions.

it never was. people are somehow convinced that because you have slightly more to do while driving MT, that all of a sudden people will concentrate 100% of the time. and conversely if you have less to do, your concentration will undoubtedly wander... what a crock of shit.... it has always been about the DRIVER, not the machine...

[old greg]

Originally Posted by madfast

do you have any study that corroborates this theory? by your logic, the US should have a much higher accident rate vs europe. is that actually the case?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

The US is noticeably worse than Western Europe, but quite a bit better than Eastern Europe.

[borge12]

And with the average being 20.8 deaths / 100,000 people, and the US at 12.3 deaths /100,000, I think we can safely say that correlation does not imply causation.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by old greg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

The US is noticeably worse than Western Europe, but quite a bit better than Eastern Europe.

and eastern europeans drive AT? nope. their MT usage is way more than western europe and north america. this is further evidence that those numbers dont correlate with AT or MT usage. rather it just shows WE > NA > EE. im looking for a study that specifically tries to correlate better/safer driving with MT.

[devinclfalcons]

The people stating that automatics are causing accidents/distractions are simply insane. These "MT Only" guys will pull out all the stops to make the case that a MT is the ONLY transmission that should be offered...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by madfast

and eastern europeans drive AT? nope. their MT usage is way more than western europe and north america. this is further evidence that those numbers dont correlate with AT or MT usage. rather it just shows WE > NA > EE. im looking for a study that specifically tries to correlate better/safer driving with MT.

I think people are missing my point. It's not about safety of the equipment as much as how seriously you take getting your license. MT would make it harder, and therefore people would take it marginally more seriously. I suspect that the difference between getting your license in Germany is rather different than getting it in Russia.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by devinclfalcons

The people stating that automatics are causing accidents/distractions are simply insane. These "MT Only" guys will pull out all the stops to make the case that a MT is the ONLY transmission that should be offered...

if someone could make a torque converter auto that has supercar like shift speeds but has a third pedal that controls the hydraulic fluid in the torque converter. when depressed the torque converter disengages like a manual so you can kick the clutch to do a drift that would be golden

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I think people are missing my point. It's not about safety of the equipment as much as how seriously you take getting your license. MT would make it harder, and therefore people would take it marginally more seriously. I suspect that the difference between getting your license in Germany is rather different than getting it in Russia.

this is the statement that needs clarification or proof. IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO DRIVE A MANUAL!!!! having said that, if we used MT as a way to weed out those that can or cant drive, you only weed out those that lack physical coordination. and is physical coordination, or the lack thereof, the main reason why people crash? no! there are many, MANY people out there that are coordinated enough to drive manual very well and yet are CARELESS drivers. and THAT is the issue, NOT the matter of AT or MT.

the notion that MT forces you to be more attentive is based on what exactly? "logic"? you do more, thus you have to pay more attention? im sorry, but the very existence of "muscle memory" already disputes that notion. so i really dont know why people continuously propagate this myth...