Manual tranny takes another step into oblivion

[madfast]

Originally Posted by SLeRoux92

EXACTLY. I got to drive an is250 for a bit and it would always fcuking shift up mid corner

IS250? you base your opinion on that crappy AT programming? do yourself a favor and drive an IS-F before you come to a conclusion that AT cant be done well...

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by madfast

IS250? you base your opinion on that crappy AT programming? do yourself a favor and drive an IS-F before you come to a conclusion that AT cant be done well...

That's a $60k car though.

Maybe try the Miata or RX-8 with 6spd auto. Those are supposed to be good.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

That's a $60k car though.

Maybe try the Miata or RX-8 with 6spd auto. Those are supposed to be good.

yes, but the difference isnt made in the transmission. the only meaningful hardware upgrade in the IS-F seems to be newly developed solenoids. and i remember reading somewhere that the FR-S will use a cheaper version of those solenoids.

the miata and rx-8 AT dont have anything special about it besides being a solid 6 speed with paddle shifters. for a lower cost taste of a well done AT, look at the nissan/infiniti 7 speed in the 370Z/G37. when the FR-S/BRZ comes out, it will have one of the best AT's at perhaps the lowest price point in the market today...

[maxeveland]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

If manuals never had clutches my car would be a manual right now.

THat would be an interesting new transmission. A 6-speed manual without a clutch and its not automatic. I would like that too. But I actually think the clutch is part of the fun

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Do you actually believe the nonsense you spout?

Yes.

[Draco-REX]

People need more engagement with their cars so they have something to focus on. Distracted driving causes accidents.

However, we also need to train and test people more (in the US). When I got my license renewed, an elderly gentleman was ASSISTED into the building, and then PROMPTED though the eye test to get his license. He probably had no idea where we was. But he's licensed to drive a 2 ton vehicle at lethal speeds. Utter BS. As was mentioned before, I would GLADLY pay a lot more to renew my license if they would actually test people on their ability to drive.

I hope MT doesn't go away. Though I'd rather a paddle-shift for track driving, a MT is much more fun day-to-day.

I don't think the MT is going to die out. Performance cars are built for performance enthusiasts. And most performance enthusiasts prefer stick shift. Besides, when manufacturers started pricing the AT and MT transmissions the same it should have knelled the death of the MT, but it didn't.

[Jordo!]

^^^ You guys are living in a self-indulgent fantasy. No F1 cars and hardly any supercars have old school three pedal + clutch trannys any more. Other proper racing cars usually have a trans that is nothing like a regular MT.

Super cars follow the lead of F1 and sports cars follow the lead of super cars.

Get over it.

People chat on the phone, text while driving, etc. because the culture has gotten more and more dependent on constant streams of (trivial) communication. The presence of AT's has little to do with it.

You guys sound like cranks.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Manual cars are like pump-action shotguns. Yeah, a Browning A5 is going to do it faster, but not everyone wants an autoloader. Pump guns are reliable and easy to maintain.

Okay, but do you prefer single action or double action revolvers?

Or, how about a machine gun?

Modern sporting AT's are faster and have equivalent drive train losses. Once you factor out arguments based on mechanical limitations with hard data, you are left with an argument based solely on qualia.

Some people prefer amps that utilize vacuum tubes too. That's fine, but no need to shit on my preference for newer tech.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

^^^ You guys are living in a self-indulgent fantasy. No F1 cars and hardly any supercars have old school three pedal + clutch trannys any more. Other proper racing cars usually have a trans that is nothing like a regular MT.

Super cars follow the lead of F1 and sports cars follow the lead of super cars.

Get over it.

People chat on the phone, text while driving, etc. because the culture has gotten more and more dependent on constant streams of (trivial) communication. The presence of AT's has little to do with it.

You guys sound like cranks.

You must've missed the point where I said:

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

However, we also need to train and test people more (in the US).

And when I said:

Though I'd rather a paddle-shift for track driving

Also, I don't think anyone has said that Autos are the sole reason for distracted driving.

Still trying to figure out how you think my post was self-indulgent fantasy.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

You must've missed the point where I said:



And when I said:


Also, I don't think anyone has said that Autos are the sole reason for distracted driving.

Still trying to figure out how you think my post was self-indulgent fantasy.

That wasn't directed squarely at you, per se -- more towards the disparaging attitude that a number of car guys have about AT's and the general disdain for anyone who dares imagine a sports car as actually being a proper sports car with fewer than three pedals to operate.

The self-indulgent fantasy was regarding the future survival of MT's. They will gradually vanish, as with all other old tech. If better AT tech doesn't kill it, then electric cars, which will require 1 or 2 speeds at most, will.

[maxeveland]

i dont see why its all about speed. I like driving manuals just because its fun to be engaging the whole body and not just sitting still moving the fight foot

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

That wasn't directed squarely at you, per se -- more towards the disparaging attitude that a number of car guys have about AT's and the general disdain for anyone who dares imagine a sports car as actually being a proper sports car with fewer than three pedals to operate.

The self-indulgent fantasy was regarding the future survival of MT's. They will gradually vanish, as with all other old tech. If better AT tech doesn't kill it, then electric cars, which will require 1 or 2 speeds at most, will.

It's not so much the manual for manual's sake. But the attitude. People don't take driving seriously anymore. The automatic is somewhat responsible for that and the appliance attitude. If getting your license was more difficult, rather than a token test because everybody 'needs' to be able to drive, people would take it more seriously.

And a manual transmission would make an effective training filter.

[Mitch]

Even when manual is the most expensive, least efficient way of changing gears, I will still use three pedals. But maybe that's just me.

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Dimman

It's not so much the manual for manual's sake. But the attitude. People don't take driving seriously anymore. The automatic is somewhat responsible for that and the appliance attitude. If getting your license was more difficult, rather than a token test because everybody 'needs' to be able to drive, people would take it more seriously.

And a manual transmission would make an effective training filter.

There's absolutely no reason to assume that.

People who only drive MT's also somehow manage to cause accidents as well, despite their cyborg-like connection with the operation of their car

Actually... we could turn this around and argue that focusing more on steering and braking and less on gear juggling is actually preferable for safer driving.

You've never talked on the cell phone while driving? If no, is this because you cannot, given that all of your attention is on the motor and trans, or because you choose not to?

And a car IS an appliance. Does everyone in Europe take driving more seriously? This is just disdain for AT's and the people who drive them... there's absolutely no reason to assume any of that.

Maybe cars shouldn't have stereos in them either? You could wreck the car fiddling with the buttons instead of driving. And cup holders? Forget it -- you are one cup of coffee away from running into a tree

Originally Posted by Mitch

Even when manual is the most expensive, least efficient way of changing gears, I will still use three pedals. But maybe that's just me.

It's not "just" you, but it is a specific segment of the population.

A lotta guys hate fuel injection too. For them, a "proper" car has a carburetor. And a V8. And goes fast with lots tire smoke. This 4-seater Miata Toyota and Subaru built wouldn't even register on their radar as something to drive or work on.

It's all about perspective...

[SLeRoux92]

Originally Posted by madfast

IS250? you base your opinion on that crappy AT programming? do yourself a favor and drive an IS-F before you come to a conclusion that AT cant be done well...

I'd say it's a good car for general comparison, I mean we're not exactly talking about driving gt-r's here. Or even better, Aventadors.

Anyways, I'm manual through thick and thin, no "shiftable autos" are worth it IMO.

Long hair; don't care

Anyways, these debates have always been pointless and I'm done wasting my time with them...people only end up getting butt hurt because someone else has an opinion.