Manual tranny takes another step into oblivion

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by brufleth

Everyone sort of seems to be ignoring this post. Maybe because heel toe isn't something people usually do on a daily basis. What just about anyone with a manual does do a daily basis is shift ahead of turns, use their engine to slow them down instead of just braking, and skips gears. These simple behaviors make even good semi-autos with flappy paddles or whatever seem annoying to me. I'm either counting taps trying to get into the right gear or bumping readline when I down shift going into a corner, or find myself relying on the brakes way more.

If you're drag racing maybe a good auto might be better just because shift time is all that matters. If you're actually driving a car no amount of shifting speed is going to make up for the fact that the car can only base gear choice on some basic information.

I actually heel toe on a daily basis =/.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Maxim

So your image is telling me that more accidents happen in densely populated areas where there are more vehicles on the road.....

no, it was to illustrate that there are still a shit ton of accidents and deaths despite the supposed notion that "MT drivers are more attentive".

My insurance company seems to agree. They charge noticably less for the manual transmission version of cars. *shrug*

that doesnt mean anything. it could just be that MT is cheaper to replace. using insurance rates as a metric for safety is useless.

The simple fact is learning to drive a manual transmission takes longer and if somebody can't learn to do that, then they shouldn't be behind the wheel. In a manual, you're always doing more than one thing at once. In an auto, drivers are more likely to be using their free hand for something distracting. If you deny people who cannot drive a manual transmission a license, then you are taking at least some of the people off the road who are just not suited to a complex task that has the potential to kill people.

in theory. but are there any statistics to prove this point? who's to say i cant use my free hand IN BETWEEN SHIFTS in a MT??? how long does it take to get distracted and crash? split second? MT driver cant get distracted between shifts?

i see your point, and on some level i agree, but lets be honest. driving MT isnt some super hard skill that takes all your concentration to do. people can get distracted just as easily. it's about the PEOPLE, not the machine. forcing people to learn MT may prevent the worst of the worst from driving, but that aint saying much... the real problem is the entitlement americans feel about driving. that it's their right to do so, not a privilege. i whole heartedly agree that it should be harder to get a license, but the notion that MT forces you to be a better driver, or that only good drivers can drive MT, is beyond flawed...

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Yes. The ZR1 is a sports car. The blower is heavy enough and way out front. They don't want to add another hundred pounds of transmission to the back of the car.

And the Boss 302 is almost a pure track car. Ask any Boss 302 owner that actually tracks their cars. They neither want or need an automatic. I've driven one, and I've driven a regular GT Brembo. The Boss 302 would not feel right with a torque converter automatic. And clutchpack/planetary automatics really don't like being spun up to 7500. The IS-F runs a corporate 8-speed transmission developed for a 70k car, and redlines at 6800. Ford is not going to dump the money to develop that transmission. This argument applies below as well.

Plus, Ford isn't going to put an automatic in it because if you want a 420hp Mustang with an automatic, buy a GT Brembo. They could put one in the GT500, but I can tell you that that transmission is going to be expensive. It has to handle 600lbs/ft of torque, spin up to at least 190mph, be able to take some hard abuse and not overheat. And they have to be willing to warranty that transmission, so its in their best interest to overbuild it to keep from having to pay out big warranty claims.

if it makes them a ton of money, they'll do it. and im not talking about just AT. im talking about the ZL1 AT being a stepping stone for better automatics, including DCTs and AMTs, in the future.

[tranzformer]

madfast, why you so mad? What do you have against MT?

[madfast]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

madfast, why you so mad? What do you have against MT?

LOL i dont have anything against MT. i love driving MT as much as the next guy, but i do have a problem with people who are anti-AT. most of them are just plain ignorant, and follow the immature enthusiast sentiment that you are not a true enthusiast if you dont drive stick. now dont get me wrong im not saying that's the case in this thread, but in general that sentiment is rife and abundant in the automotive world...

with this thread specifically, i was just reporting that continued development of the AT really will kill off the MT in the near future. just like people who ride horses as a means of transportation, mostly they do it for fun. just like people who jet their own carbs, they do it for fun. and in the future, people will drive MT, for fun...

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

madfast, why you so mad? What do you have against MT?

He doesn't have anything against manuals IMO. He comes off to me as somebody who is open minded vs the manual or die crowd. Why is it that automatic drivers are lazy? I guarantee you a lot of the CEO's and hard working people drive automatics. I think the real question is why the manual-only crowd is so fucking mad?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by madfast

LOL i dont have anything against MT. i love driving MT as much as the next guy, but i do have a problem with people who are anti-AT. most of them are just plain ignorant, and follow the immature enthusiast sentiment that you are not a true enthusiast if you dont drive stick. now dont get me wrong im not saying that's the case in this thread, but in general that sentiment is rife and abundant in the automotive world...

with this thread specifically, i was just reporting that continued development of the AT really will kill off the MT in the near future. just like people who ride horses as a means of transportation, mostly they do it for fun. just like people who jet their own carbs, they do it for fun. and in the future, people will drive MT, for fun...

Well said!!!!!

[Exage]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Why is it that automatic drivers are lazy? I guarantee you a lot of the CEO's and hard working people drive automatics. I think the real question is why the manual-only crowd is so fucking mad?

There is a notion of I "need" an automatic. It's terrible.

There are people that actually do need one, the really hard working people... say the ones that lost their limbs fighting for their country, or born with a similar and very unfortunate case.

The biggest is the city or traffic "need". If I can take my car around the city or slow moving highway then a similar perfectly well functioning human being could too. Similar story with "hills", (I live on a 22% grade), and with "I haven't learned how" (I started driving on a 3-speed auto). Those are excuses for "need".

If you say that you "want" an automatic then it's a bit of a different story. That's where I believe the Automatic=Lazy attitude spans from.

(In all honesty I do mean this in a light [somewhat joking] sense of a post before people go all haywire on me, don't take it too seriously)

[madfast]

Originally Posted by Exage

The biggest is the city or traffic "need". If I can take my car around the city or slow moving highway then a similar perfectly well functioning human being could too. Similar story with "hills", (I live on a 22% grade), and with "I haven't learned how" (I started driving on a 3-speed auto). Those are excuses for "need".

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...utomatics.html

for all you MT enthusiasts out there, god bless you if you can stand this everyday...

i understand your post was semi in jest, but alas there are people out there who think like this for real...

[Exage]

Originally Posted by madfast

for all you MT enthusiasts out there, god bless you if you can stand this everyday...

If I did, would that shoot me to driving god status?

Hell I would just walk, It's faster then any car at that speed.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by Exage

There is a notion of I "need" an automatic. It's terrible.

There are people that actually do need one, the really hard working people... say the ones that lost their limbs fighting for their country, or born with a similar and very unfortunate case.

The biggest is the city or traffic "need". If I can take my car around the city or slow moving highway then a similar perfectly well functioning human being could too. Similar story with "hills", (I live on a 22% grade), and with "I haven't learned how" (I started driving on a 3-speed auto). Those are excuses for "need".

If you say that you "want" an automatic then it's a bit of a different story. That's where I believe the Automatic=Lazy attitude spans from.

(In all honesty I do mean this in a light [somewhat joking] sense of a post before people go all haywire on me, don't take it too seriously)

I understand where you are coming from 100%. My reason for not being a manual only person isn't because I am lazy. It's because I hate the clutch with a passion. If manuals never had clutches my car would be a manual right now. I still love to shift and that's why I like Sporty Autos/DCT transmissions. My auto rarely stays in auto mode so I am putting effort towards having some form of control and fun in my car. Unfortunately my auto isn't geared sporty enough and doesn't have the torque converter lock-up feature so I know the FR-S tranny will be amazing since I like mines a little bit.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Dimman

What they should keep manuals for is for testing for your license. No manual ability, no license. If you can't operate a damn manual (due to laziness rather than disability) how the hell can you operate the whole rest of the car? God, how much better the roads would be...

Japan has 2 different licenses for cars. AT only and MT/AT

[Infernal]

for grip racing not much can beat a paddle shift auto/dual clutch system

for fun you buy a MT

for ultra fun, a straight cut sequential manual

[Zaku]

Guys... don't worry they still have Horses, I'm sure they'll still have manual cars.

[SLeRoux92]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Yeah absolutely! Hell, I practice heel/toeing on the road all the time. If I'm in traffic I'll just clutch in and downshift without braking, and ease the clutch back and engine brake, but if I'm driving around, especially somewhere remote, I heel/toe before corners. It's just a good way to practice.

The worst thing about automatics is that even the performance ones, with good programming, aren't good at holding a gear at high RPM and part-throttle. The most common time that somebody would want to remain at high RPM and part throttle is around a corner....the absolute worst time to inadvertently shift gears.

EXACTLY. I got to drive an is250 for a bit and it would always fcuking shift up mid corner

Originally Posted by tranzformer

madfast, why you so mad? What do you have against MT?

^lol what i was thinking

Originally Posted by Exage

There is a notion of I "need" an automatic. It's terrible.

There are people that actually do need one, the really hard working people... say the ones that lost their limbs fighting for their country, or born with a similar and very unfortunate case.

The biggest is the city or traffic "need". If I can take my car around the city or slow moving highway then a similar perfectly well functioning human being could too. Similar story with "hills", (I live on a 22% grade), and with "I haven't learned how" (I started driving on a 3-speed auto). Those are excuses for "need".

If you say that you "want" an automatic then it's a bit of a different story. That's where I believe the Automatic=Lazy attitude spans from.

(In all honesty I do mean this in a light [somewhat joking] sense of a post before people go all haywire on me, don't take it too seriously)

Most only "need" an automatic so they can chat on the phone their whole way home from wherever

Originally Posted by Infernal

for grip racing not much can beat a paddle shift auto/dual clutch system

for fun you buy a MT

for ultra fun, a straight cut sequential manual

HOLY SH!T sequentials are the best

My r6 was the first sequential shift vehicle I'd ever owned and that thing TORE through the gears like no other, you really don't even need to use the clutch, just lightly blip OFF the throttle for 1/10 a second and it slips right up.

it was like 1st gear: 0-75mph BAM 2nd gear BAM, so on up to 167 lol

nothing more intense than doing that in a full tuck and seeing the shift light going crazy 2 inches from your face as your front end begs to come up

I digress..