First track day in my 86

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by TrogDor the Burninator

My car is NA with no power mods ... just suspension and some larger racing wheels ...

I'm also a pretty green driver ... so I wasn't exactly tearing it up !

Don't get me wrong ... they were amazing that first weekend ... and pretty close the second weekend ....

Since ... eh ...

I need some contingency money to buy tires each event!

You don't need to be fast to overheat tires. When you feel the grip start to drop off during your session, you should slow down and cool off the tires, or pull off.

[robtan]

Originally Posted by mav1178

FWIW: you ran faster times with a stock suspension/tire/brake setup (and better power) than my car with suspension/tires/brakes but stock engine.

In my (crappy) defense, I haven't been to Buttonwillow in 10 years. :P

-alex

As long as you were having fun I wont judge
You should get back out there!

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by robtan

I think I should have explained that in a different way. While I know tire upgrade would have helped in all departments, i don't feel like the prius tire took away from the experience i was looking to have. Plus i was kinda hoping to get the rear end loose
All of that said, i have my eye on a set of Dunlop direzza ZII's after the brakes

Ah I get what you're saying. Yeah that's sort of my rationale for going with mild summer tires rather than Z2SS or RS3's that everyone else is going with. It lowers the limits of the car a bit and lets you play around with the handling and balance. From what I can tell, it also seems to be easier on the car itself (suspension, brakes, etc.)

Like you I'll probably upgrade to Z2SS down the line, but the car is definitely fun with lower grip tires too.

[robtan]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Ah I get what you're saying. Yeah that's sort of my rationale for going with mild summer tires rather than Z2SS or RS3's that everyone else is going with. It lowers the limits of the car a bit and lets you play around with the handling and balance. From what I can tell, it also seems to be easier on the car itself (suspension, brakes, etc.)

Like you I'll probably upgrade to Z2SS down the line, but the car is definitely fun with lower grip tires too.

Your observation is correct, lower grip tires are a little less abusive. My friend has the zII on his crappy E92 bimmer and while the car is mechanically similar to a Lancia, those tires made the car much more enjoyable on his stock suspension (even better when he went coils).

[Photonic]

Originally Posted by robtan

I think I should have explained that in a different way. While I know tire upgrade would have helped in all departments, i don't feel like the prius tire took away from the experience i was looking to have. Plus i was kinda hoping to get the rear end loose
All of that said, i have my eye on a set of Dunlop direzza ZII's after the brakes

I would hold off on the tires too

If there is anything I have learned over my years of nudging my way through the track day crowd it is this.

you are on stock suspension. Increased grip = increased suspension loads and will abuse the compromised damping/spring rates. you are going to roll more, bottom out more (and your brakes will fade all the quicker if you are intuitive enough to push them to lock up) The BRZ/GT86/FT86/FRS whatever you want to call it is balanced for those tires.

you are going to go into a slump if you just fit grippy tires. And you are going to probably get very very frustrated.

Brakes FIRST. Learn how the car reacts with the same tires, Suspension next. Learn how the car reacts with those tires, you will find you absolutely NEED more grip but you will find it is more "I need grip on the rear ..or front" rather than just "I need more grip!!!" ..when you realize how all these things are affecting the car you can add more tire and compare it as a whole. More grip = more force on every aspect of the car ...and every aspect of the car needs to be adjusted to attain the same driving experience. Ie if you are having a problem powering out of corners, you should increase the suspension load on the front at the expense of the rear, get more understeer going. You already know how to drive the car tail happy, drive it the same way using more front grip and you will find more speed and more time to open the throttle.

Tires change "Everything". And they are most important piece of a car In my opinion. But they will do little good if you push the tires limits, while exceeding roll center/ suspension travel/ brake heat capacity.

You can have TOO much tire for a car.

[robtan]

Originally Posted by Photonic

I would hold off on the tires too

If there is anything I have learned over my years of nudging my way through the track day crowd it is this.

you are on stock suspension. Increased grip = increased suspension loads and will abuse the compromised damping/spring rates. you are going to roll more, bottom out more (and your brakes will fade all the quicker if you are intuitive enough to push them to lock up) The BRZ/GT86/FT86/FRS whatever you want to call it is balanced for those tires.

you are going to go into a slump if you just fit grippy tires. And you are going to probably get very very frustrated.

Brakes FIRST. Learn how the car reacts with the same tires, Suspension next. Learn how the car reacts with those tires, you will find you absolutely NEED more grip but you will find it is more "I need grip on the rear ..or front" rather than just "I need more grip!!!" ..when you realize how all these things are affecting the car you can add more tire and compare it as a whole. More grip = more force on every aspect of the car ...and every aspect of the car needs to be adjusted to attain the same driving experience. Ie if you are having a problem powering out of corners, you should increase the suspension load on the front at the expense of the rear, get more understeer going. You already know how to drive the car tail happy, drive it the same way using more front grip and you will find more speed and more time to open the throttle.

Tires change "Everything". And they are most important piece of a car In my opinion. But they will do little good if you push the tires limits, while exceeding roll center/ suspension travel/ brake heat capacity.

You can have TOO much tire for a car.

For starters, thank you for the very valuable information! Your post echoes what I have been feeling about the subject with just small variations on my end which are totally preference related. Brakes are an absolute necessety on this car for my application. Suspension, maybe rce's but I'm not looking for a track monster. I love the car in its stock form (sans the brakes). I bought this car with the intention that I would do the occasional track day with minor mods. I can assure you that the sequence of modifications I make will follow the progression you have set forth here. Id love to maybe take this conversation to pm's to pick your brain a bit about this subject, if you don't mind of course.
Again this is the kind of info we need stickied if it isn't already