Alignment FAQ Thread

[Dezoris]

Anyone have anything to add?

[ericmpena]

I just received Eibach Sportline springs. Before I install them I just want to make sure I have this understood.




1. I should purchase front camber bolts
2. I should purchase rear LCA

Then I should be okay with camber on both front and back, correct?

I've found camber bolts for $20 online. Can anyone link me to a decently priced (Under $250) set of rear LCA?

[OICU812]

And old thread but now time has gone by "lots actually"

That said what are the proven "good feeling, no weird shit happening" settings for:

Daily street driver an inch to inch half lower?

Autocross guy with moderate max drop of say an inch?

Regular spirited driver with larger wheels and a moderate drop say an inch to inh and a quarter?

Are there too many variables for these answers? I know some folks will say go with what works best for you but let's face it that takes a ton of time and money to change stuff constantly in regards to alignments. There has to be some solidified ranges by now known for the above examples for camber, caster and toe front and back yes?

[kiichiro]

Fun thread.

Just thinking out loud after reading this, so please no need for that ghost busters flame thrower

Looking for a little open discussion and perhaps some feedback on what I dialed to, a bit different than op but not by a lot

I run with up front with Perrin caster correction, but you can do the same with avo or custom lca like robispec, nt sure what the results are like using eccentric parts or a lca vs a combination thereof of similar tech, with front, is simple enough. I didn't gain much camber up from from drop alone up front . The rear, well I'm using just lca for now but later plan some additions to my setup.

I can achieve the alignment spec (I think) I want, today. I gained .75 caster and am ok where I am, but I know there is room for refinement. Later adding rear Uca and robispec front lca will complete the deal for me, very happy with my camber plates and rsm at the moment and haven't found a good reason to do those extra things but I have a to do yet to check off and that is drive robis car, a test drive or ride in csg setup that is a bit more aggressive ( wish I had money for a trailer, the cool tracks are all so far away)

Seems like perhaps folks overlooking the benefit of caster gain. Also I tried running lots of camber but there is marginal gains for me on a dual duty build, that I want to eventually lean tracking, it's a bit soft which is very street friendly, and rotates nice in corners. My street tires don't like excessive camber but my track rubber seems to eat it up. I need to get to where I can align for a 700 mile drive get to the track and know what to dial to where, next.

I actually got to a point I felt it was too low and raised it back up. I can provide where I am at, height and spec wise, but don't know where I am on height meaning i wonder if i should go lower...but I know this is relevant the sweet spot n the rear seems to be about -1.7 , over 1.9 it's not getting me any extra perceived grip, hard to verify without actual track time, but that's my gut. I'm at about 2 inches drop in the rear. I may come up a quart inch

Up front 1.8 drop was good but about my limit, I could go lower but it gets twitchy if I go too low, tho the front end sticks nicely with little to no understeer

I settled for rear camber of -1.6 front I'm at -2.1, tho the track rubber seems to like even more, it gets funny feeling over a hundred in a straight line with too much camber, up past 120

My front caster is about -7.0, I am liking that a whole lot
Front toe is a hair negative and rear toe just a hair positive both between .10 to .20 degrees

Share your evolved setups, lets collaborate more here

[diss7]

I will only ever get an alignment from a shop that will let me watch/help. Often it means going in after hours.

And you need to find a tech that actually wants to get it right. As said by OP, most can't be f'd; and its more a case of throughput to get more sale. Most work to the "toe and go" mentality, that meaning that that is all the adjust, and the others end up where they end up.

I'm quite lucky in that my mate owns an alignment and tyre shop, and has a quality machine.

[ShoGun]

can we get this stickied?

[rodel]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

A great alignment shop can even out that uneven rear camber, without adding any parts Our car came uneven in the rear, and is even now

For anyone that's in socal... http://www.yelp.com/biz/west-end-alignment-gardena . Book your appt at least 2 weeks in advance if you want your choice of time

Helpful information. Thank you.

Prior to alignment, how much rear camber did your car have? Was West End able to correct the alignment to factory spec?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rodel

Helpful information. Thank you.

Prior to alignment, how much rear camber did your car have? Was West End able to correct the alignment to factory spec?

I don't remember what the factory specs are... but they are posted in a sticky somewhere

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by rodel

Helpful information. Thank you.

Prior to alignment, how much rear camber did your car have? Was West End able to correct the alignment to factory spec?

with an extremely patient shop who will loosen the rear crossmember can even out camber in the rear on a stock car.

[Jive Turkey]

fantastic thread!

here is what i have to add from personal experience, and also a few people i see insist to argue with me, but its facts.

when i put my KW and adjustable lower control arms in so i can even out the camber, the stock toe arms were maxed out and i had serious toe issues, the car was SUPER unstable.

i had to get toe arms to solve this. i've seen MULTIPLE people slam their cars and then run into serious camber and toe issues because nthign is adjustable once you lower the car too much...and people insist on SLAMMING these things.

what they don't realize is that the rear everything is fixed, so as you drop it camber in, its not something you can adjust or take out stock...people seem to not wrap their heads around this.

it needs to be known that once you lower the car passed a certain point, you have NO CHOICE but get adjustable links/LCA's because you need the adjustment to have the car be stable and not snappy. some people come to the shop with alignments done by other shops and they are told -.40 toe IS OKAY and then they ask why their car feels like it has speed wobbles.

too much mis-information and self proclaimed experts on social media these days, suspension geometry is FACTS, and certain things simply cannot be fixed once you go below a certain height, in your post you mentioned that most people don't even know wtf their coilovers truly do besides lower their car, and you would be correct in that statement. the consumers need to be aware of what they are doing and WHY, too many people are just not familiar and don't understand why certain alignments take SO LONG with coilovers, well everyhitng is out of waco, and your coils are seized, and someone stripped this bolt installing a certain part, etc etc.

a good alignment, ESPECIALLY a corner balance takes a long time to get absolutely perfect, its not a simple throw it on the rack and the machine tells you what to do, adjusting one thing effects everything else like you stated! great info, lets get more people to read this.

[CB762]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is precisely why we do the testing on out car, so that our client's have tried and proven settings to work off of.

I'd also like to clarify a few things.

- Alignments with and without a coilovers are no different. If anything, it may be even easier since you now have PROPER adjustability (e.g. a camber plate, instead of playing with a camber bolt and trying to torque it in the right location).
- Alignments can be done by any alignment shop, regardless of whether you have coilover or not. Cornerbalancing is a different story.
- Re-cornerbalancing is not necessary with a height change if it is done with careful consideration.

I'm wondering what are those "careful considerations"? TIA!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CB762

I'm wondering what are those "careful considerations"? TIA!

Precise measurements and calculated height changes based on the previous corner balance and known spring rates.

[CB762]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Precise measurements and calculated height changes based on the previous corner balance and known spring rates.

Can we say that we know those parameters for the stock car?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CB762

Can we say that we know those parameters for the stock car?

It's easy to measure, but stock suspension does not have a way for adjusting height without modification.