BRZ/FRS vs 2015 WRX

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

What does it matter if it drives like a 'proper' RWD sports car if it costs about the same and goes around a track faster (and can handle inclement weather with a LOL)? When I was talking about fanboys, I mean the people who think the BRZ must be the fastest because it's new and light. The BRZ is fun at slow speeds. You can't really say that about the STI.

The other point I made was addressing was the handling gripe. The fact is the WRX and STI CAN be tweaked to handle like they're on rails (bushings, fender braces, etc). If you want an oversteer bias just put a huge swaybar on the back.

The only thing you won't get is the same weight advantage of the BRZ. My STI feels like a truck compared to my BRZ. It has a much more upright seating postion and completely different steering wheel size/placement. It grips corners worlds better than my BRZ in most cases (except a super tight slaloms during autocross) and refuses to lose the rear end unless I'm REALLY trying hard. However, I'd have to completely strip the interior, seats, trunk, etc to get anywhere near the BRZ's weight with my STI. The AWD just adds too much weight. Even then, I wouldn't have the same super low center of gravity as the BRZ. No biggie. Different purposes for different platforms, but they're both stupid-fun.

Hard to see some body is talking Senses like you do. I sometimes get sick and tired of people who think their choice of the 86 is the best of the world

[Frost]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i really think that everyone overestimates the importance of tires regarding the lap times. that comparison was at streets which is an absolutely tiny track where power is of little importance. look at the other tire comparison when they look at the 1 series, mustang and brz. the brz saw the smallest improvement in times despite making, by far, the largest jump in tire performance.

Now that was a good test. Same car but staging up in different tire classes comparing the times. It's too bad there's no one performance tire (is there?) that fit all three cars. Then it would take away tire advantages and strictly boil down to car mechanics and dynamics.

Originally Posted by kuhlka

What does it matter if it drives like a 'proper' RWD sports car if it costs about the same and goes around a track faster (and can handle inclement weather with a LOL)? When I was talking about fanboys, I mean the people who think the BRZ must be the fastest because it's new and light. The BRZ is fun at slow speeds. You can't really say that about the STI.

The other point I made was addressing was the handling gripe. The fact is the WRX and STI CAN be tweaked to handle like they're on rails (bushings, fender braces, etc). If you want an oversteer bias just put a huge swaybar on the back.

I think both of you are actually on the same page. There are people on this forum that think the 86 is a monster (which it isn't) and will foam at the mouth and do the whole zealot schpiel. I think he meant that the AWD in general just is different for the same reasons you mentioned.

Having driven almost all configurations (FF, FR, MR, FA) - I gotta say that while you can make an AWD cornering machine, it just ain't the same as the BRZ. The intangibles if you will.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Frost

I think both of you are actually on the same page. There are people on this forum that think the 86 is a monster (which it isn't) and will foam at the mouth and do the whole zealot schpiel. I think he meant that the AWD in general just is different for the same reasons you mentioned.

Having driven almost all configurations (FF, FR, MR, FA) - I gotta say that while you can make an AWD cornering machine, it just ain't the same as the BRZ. The intangibles if you will.

I got that feeling as well. There are a lot of people on here with actual racing experience who get it. The (stock) 86 was intended to just be a fun car to drive. That fully modified 86 (GT300 BRZ) has won gold but only uses the factory cabin as a shell. The rest is all crazy custom work.

I really want to see a fully worked over stock chassis 86 in autocross blow away Miatas. The lightly modified cars are doing well, but how much money do you have to dump in to be competitive in stuff like Time Attack vs a stock STI or Evo or even that new WRX? The low power of the BRZ makes for a fun challenge carrying speed through corners, but on dry asphalt it seems like the car should have been 2.5L with at least 240hp at the crank to push out of corners. I'd bet that's what the TRD/STI version will be in a few years.

Back on-topic, I'd really like to see a matched tire shootout between the BRZ and new WRX on a really tight technical track like Eagles Canyon in Texas.

[ame]http://youtu.be/UwSOp3xRmxs[/ame]

[Frost]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

I got that feeling as well. There are a lot of people on here with actual racing experience who get it. The (stock) 86 was intended to just be a fun car to drive. That fully modified 86 (GT300 BRZ) has won gold but only uses the factory cabin as a shell. The rest is all crazy custom work.

I really want to see a fully worked over stock chassis 86 in autocross blow away Miatas. The lightly modified cars are doing well, but how much money do you have to dump in to be competitive in stuff like Time Attack vs a stock STI or Evo or even that new WRX? The low power of the BRZ makes for a fun challenge carrying speed through corners, but on dry asphalt it seems like the car should have been 2.5L with at least 240hp at the crank to push out of corners. I'd bet that's what the TRD/STI version will be in a few years.

I agree. I love it when people say I can spend 10,000 on my XYZ car that cost 19,000 and make it beat a car that is 60,000 but they don't factor in the engineering hours (done by others) and the time it takes to get the parts out for sale. There is an invisible machine to the general public on the aftermarket parts that has to do a lot of investment and work to get those parts out for affordable prices.

In the end, I buy a car that will help me become a better driver and usually it doesn't involve stupid high horsepower or speed.

Originally Posted by kuhlka

Back on-topic, I'd really like to see a matched tire shootout between the BRZ and new WRX on a really tight technical track like Eagles Canyon in Texas

I see on Tire Rack that Michelin Pilot Super Sports are available in stock BRZ and stock 2014 WRX size. Since I don't know the 2015 WRX size, I have to assume it will be the same.

I hope some magazine reads our posts and uses the SAME DAMN TIRE.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

What does it matter if it drives like a 'proper' RWD sports car if it costs about the same and goes around a track faster (and can handle inclement weather with a LOL)?

Some people want a car that drives and handles better (or more to their preference), rather than a car that's just faster at the track. Think "best driver's car" vs. "fastest track car".

Personal example -- my FR-S is more fun at my local track (Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit) than my old STI ever was, even though it's slower.

[thill]

Evo/WRX etc, to me are a completely different class of car than the BRZ/FR-S. I like them both but was not really cross shopping this class at all when I was buying.

[kuhlka]

[ame]http://youtu.be/91Baq6vLcO8[/ame]

[Frost]

Can't wait till Randy Pobst drives this thing at Laguna Seca. Let's see what he says!

[BadMoon]

I'm seriously considering moving into one of these.

[Brzetto]

The car looks good in any color but red, however the BRZ is still a cooler car.

[thill]

I am hoping the 2016 STi pushes 320hp and 300ft lbs or torque and also improves upon gas mileage from the previous version. I also hope they offer a spoilerless version, although I am sure you can do a trunk swap.

[N1rve]

Me personally, I don't like the new WRX. I like the exterior of the older models, however the interiors really lack, but you don't buy a WRX for their interiors. The new exterior, not liking it at all. It seems too big.

I don't understand why they put a CVT transmission into this car as well. I believe that the CVT is going to be a major turn off. I used to own a CVT car and I'm never ever going to own another CVT in my life.

It's great that they're giving people more options like a manual or a automatic, but that CVT really ruins it for me.

[thill]

Autobytel clocked 0-60 in 6.0 seconds with the CVT and 0-60 in 5.2 seconds with the manual with the nannies on track mode.

Pretty good numbers considering you have to shift to third to hit 60.

Okay, I will be honest, I have watched a few more reviews and the exterior is starting to grow on me. I suspect it will look better in person.

[boxer 2.5]

Originally Posted by thill

Autobytel clocked 0-60 in 6.0 seconds with the CVT and 0-60 in 5.2 seconds with the manual with the nannies on track mode.

Pretty good numbers considering you have to shift to third to hit 60.

Okay, I will be honest, I have watched a few more reviews and the exterior is starting to grow on me. I suspect it will look better in person.

You can hit 60 in second on the limiter. So in theory, beating on the car; you can hit 60 in about 4.8-5.0