Need A Car For A Beginning Enthusiast

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

One of these things is not like the other.

"Enthusiast" means different things to different people.

OEM replacement is $4,700 after doing a bit of research, rebuilt engines can be obtained from reliable sources for < $3,000 and installation labor is about 8 hours ringing up to $1,000 give or take. This does not account for DIY which is certainly possible with an engine that weighs less than some dogs. Feel free to go on a tirade I've heard a million times about how it's unreliable trash that engines get replaced with less than 100,000 miles on them (rotaries are certainly capable of the same longevity of piston engines with proper care and a bit of luck), poor gas mileage, poor torque and whatever else have you.

The RX-8 weighs the same as an 86, has 40 more peak hp, a 50/50 weight distribution, and back seats that are usable for people, all for less than a new Toyobaru.

[Frost]

Get a used Miata - best of all worlds except not blindingly fast.

She will enjoy going topless... see what I did there?

[avp1]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

One of these things is not like the other.

You forgot that - warranty.

Mazda will replace engine if it is less than 5 y.o. and 80000 miles. You can always ask for engine check before cutoff date - it will only set you back less than $200 if they find that everything is still good.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Yep. Just make sure you get her normal turbo with the AWD and not the GT2 with RWD.

Female GT2 driver....is the car now a widowermaker instead of a widowmaker?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The RX-8 weighs the same as an 86, has 40 more peak hp, a 50/50 weight distribution, and back seats that are usable for people, all for less than a new Toyobaru.

Just to correct a few things here:

RX-8
- $26,435 MSRP ($1735 more than an FR-S, not inflation adjusted)
- 232 hp (32 more hp)
- 3060 lbs (302 lbs heavier)
- 53/47 weight distribution

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Just to correct a few things here:

RX-8
- $26,435 MSRP ($1735 more than an FR-S, not inflation adjusted)
- 232 hp (32 more hp)
- 3060 lbs (302 lbs heavier)
- 53/47 weight distribution

He was comparing a used car to a new car, which is totally fair.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

"Enthusiast" means different things to different people.

OEM replacement is $4,700 after doing a bit of research, rebuilt engines can be obtained from reliable sources for < $3,000 and installation labor is about 8 hours ringing up to $1,000 give or take. This does not account for DIY which is certainly possible with an engine that weighs less than some dogs. Feel free to go on a tirade I've heard a million times about how it's unreliable trash that engines get replaced with less than 100,000 miles on them (rotaries are certainly capable of the same longevity of piston engines with proper care and a bit of luck), poor gas mileage, poor torque and whatever else have you.

The RX-8 weighs the same as an 86, has 40 more peak hp, a 50/50 weight distribution, and back seats that are usable for people, all for less than a new Toyobaru.

I pulled an RX-8 engine out last Saturday night in a driveway on jackstands. It is not a simple task. Why anyone would want to buy a car where the engines generally last so few miles is beyond me, but the guys I were helping both owned RX-8s and were rotary lovers. I think the desire to be different blinds them to the reason why other companies don't use rotaries. I mean they get horrible gas mileage, have horrible emissions, and they have to inject oil so they are designed to burn oil.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

He was comparing a used car to a new car, which is totally fair.

Oh ok, didn't realize that. Not sure what the point is of comparing new vs. used prices.

In any event, the weight, weight distribution, and horsepower corrections still stand.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Oh ok, didn't realize that. Not sure what the point is of comparing new vs. used prices.

In any event, the weight, weight distribution, and horsepower corrections still stand.

There is no point. It's stupid. Otherwise we'd all be driving around in C5 Z06 Corvettes because it's more value than any new car.

[daiheadjai]

7th generation Celica.
Great looks (far better than RSX IMO), one of the most superb FF chassis, and Toyota reliability (the GT model runs the same 1ZZ-FE engine as the Corolla and MR2 Spyder).

Even the GT is great to drive.
I had one - when I sold it to a wholesaler, the dealer was very surprised by how good it was - the guy took off on the test drive, and came back with a huge grin (even though mine was second hand and the last guy didn't take much care of the car).

Try to get a 2003 model though - the 2000-2002 Celica GT burned oil due to Toyota's piston ring design. On the downside, the 2003s had DBW and didn't look as good (consider a 2003+ engine swap to a 2002?)

Still love that car - the inline 4 revved freely, and sounded great.

[fatoni]

a couple thoughts, the 240z is not slow and anybody who claims to be a car enthusiast or values the driving experience but hates the miata is not a very good driving enthusiast. miata is pretty much always the answer.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Just to correct a few things here:

RX-8
- $26,435 MSRP ($1735 more than an FR-S, not inflation adjusted)
- 232 hp (32 more hp)
- 3060 lbs (302 lbs heavier)
- 53/47 weight distribution

I'm always surprised how much they changed year to year...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_RX-8

I was thinking of the "high power" (or type s in Japan) trim which offered 247 hp in the first generation cars. You are correct that the 232 hp variant is more plentiful and a better comparison.

Mazda claimed 52/48 weight distribution on the 2011 model.
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/musa.../specs_RX8.pdf

In any case, more balanced than the Toyobaru, a curb weight within spitting distance and using your numbers the RX8 has better power to weight.

Why bother comparing used and new? Because the OP is bringing up cars that are 40 years old and comparing them to new or like new models (240z vs Infiniti G37 vs '13 Accord), figured he'd appreciate the perspective when decent RX8's can be found for around $10k as opposed to his other options surpassing $18k.

Thanks for keeping me honest.

I still think an RSX is the best choice though with the Tc in second if it's too hard to find an RSX that isn't abused. Integra if OP wants to go even cheaper.

[DarkSunrise]

^^^
Got it, that makes sense. Just a FYI, the weight distribution number I used was as tested by C/D:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...test-sheet.pdf

Also better power-weight ratio on paper, but Mazda may have inflated its numbers. The dynos seem to read low for the RX-8 and they were about as fast as the Twins in the 1/4, if not slower in some cases:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

[vobla6.0]

Originally Posted by ChocoThunder

RULES: NO BMWs or VWs. AT ALL. EVER. PERIOD.

Care to elaborate?

because, not all german cars are the same and not all japanese cars are the same. Lumping cars in such generic categories is utter idiocy.

An E30 /E36 with a 6-pot makes an excellent car for the starting enthusiast. Its cheap to get, cheap to replace, handles great, plenty fast, and is one of the easier cars to DIY.

Miazdas NA/NB are pretty neat too, for similar reasons as an old 3 series.

I would get an old school 3 series or a miazda before a S13/S14. And what is the behemoth G37 and a brand new accord doing there together with oldass cars you listed? Does your girlfriend know what she want?Do you know what she wants?

Those cars you listed are different in so many respects, you might as well throw a full size SUV into the mix