TRD 86 / FR-S Officially Announced (Parts List and Photos)

[SLeRoux92]

not really sure about the appeal of trd parts besides possible warranty retention (which I can see how that's a big deal, but a trd build will be nothing more than pretty impressive. SHOCKING builds involve risk, aftermarket support, destroying warranties, blah blah blah), if I'm dropping cash on an exhaust, or any other performance parts for that matter, I'd rather send my money to HKS, stance, tein, bc, junbl, etc.

Of course, the mods will come slowly since the aftermarket will surely lag since development periods are necessary, but they WILL come lol. Being the cautious man I am, however, simple low-risk mods will come first. as the warranty comes to an end, thou shall go ape sh!t, but the beginnings will be an exhaust, intake, coilovers, you know, the basic bs)

[delongedoug]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

i like the way it feels, i dont plan on pushing more than 300 whp and i like the warranty, when a clutch explodes, damage is done to bearings, bell housing, pressure plate, if the part fails toyota will warranty all damages because it is a genuine toyota part installed by the dealership, that kind of damage, repairs can be in the thousands.

if you want something that grabs harder and that is stronger just get the JDM variant...

Did you just mention a motor pushing 50% more power than stock and warranty in the same sentence?

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by delongedoug

Did you just mention a motor pushing 50% more power than stock and warranty in the same sentence?

i firmly believe you would be able to get that out of this engine intake/header/exhaust/supercharger would at least yield 300 crank hp at 7psi(guessing this would be the boost rating)

2zz-ge has seen 350whp with 10psi on stock compression at 11.5:1 (180hp stock)
the 86 will see 300 hp at stock compression at 12:1 with +.2 liters (200hp stock)

and its more than enough for me...

at 206whp you're at 3.7L mustang power to weight
at 301whp you're at 5.0L mustang levels
at 350whp you're at gt500 levels

so in reality, 300whp is more that enough in a car this light

and for shits and giggles about 590whp is bugatti level performance

[serialk11r]

I don't think 7psi will cut it for 300hp, and the engine probably can't take much more than that on pump gas (unless said pump "gas" is E85). 7psi assuming you could intercool it pretty well is still less than 50% more air, and you have to subtract the energy you lose from the intercooler, the inefficiency of the supercharger (higher intake pressure causes the engine to recover most of the energy provided to the supercharger though), and then the reduced thermal efficiency of the engine because the expansion stroke is not increasing. With a 100% efficient supercharger you would be lucky to see 30% more power.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I don't think 7psi will cut it for 300hp, and the engine probably can't take much more than that on pump gas (unless said pump "gas" is E85). 7psi assuming you could intercool it pretty well is still less than 50% more air, and you have to subtract the energy you lose from the intercooler, the inefficiency of the supercharger (higher intake pressure causes the engine to recover most of the energy provided to the supercharger though), and then the reduced thermal efficiency of the engine because the expansion stroke is not increasing. With a 100% efficient supercharger you would be lucky to see 30% more power.

1 bar of pressure = about 14.5 psi at 14.5 psi the engines compression ratio doubles(or flow as much air as a double the liters your applying it to)

on a normal 10.5:1 compression engine 14.5 psi would equate to 21:1 and
at 7 psi would be 15:1 ratio and after losses about 30% increased efficiency

this i do understand

171 whp stock
10 whp intake
12 whp headers
5 whp exhaust
5 whp testpipe
1 whp lightweight pulleys
4 whp cat delete

208 whp after mods (underestimating gains)
X 30% from supercharger
=270 whp = 85% drivetrain loss
318 hp at the crank
302 hp at crank with I/H/E
260 hp at the crank without mods

300 crank hp is imaginable with basic supporting mods, 300 whp is my goal

[serialk11r]

The problem is 1.5 bar would be 1.5 times the mass of air at room temperature...adiabatic compression increases the temperature of the air, and the compressor itself imparts additional thermal energy into the air.

Another thing you're overlooking is that lightweight flywheel does not add crank power. It adds apparent power on a non-constant speed dyno. The true mechanical loss of the transmission and differential is around 10%, not 15%. The stock engine makes 200 at the crank. If you shoved say 1.8 bar into the engine I'd believe you if you said 300hp crank was possible. 1.5 bar, you're not even giving it enough air to make that happen, assuming you have a 100% efficient compressor. It's not even possible if you had a 3L atkinson cycle equivalent engine with 1.5bar.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

5 whp testpipe

4 whp cat delete

Redundant much?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by old greg

Redundant much?

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by old greg

Redundant much?

im tired ok i know test pipes dont have cats :P

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The problem is 1.5 bar would be 1.5 times the mass of air at room temperature...adiabatic compression increases the temperature of the air, and the compressor itself imparts additional thermal energy into the air.

Another thing you're overlooking is that lightweight flywheel does not add crank power. It adds apparent power on a non-constant speed dyno. The true mechanical loss of the transmission and differential is around 10%, not 15%. The stock engine makes 200 at the crank. If you shoved say 1.8 bar into the engine I'd believe you if you said 300hp crank was possible. 1.5 bar, you're not even giving it enough air to make that happen, assuming you have a 100% efficient compressor. It's not even possible if you had a 3L atkinson cycle equivalent engine with 1.5bar.

i did not say lightweight flywheel, it was lightweight pulleys
lightweight pulleys decrease engine friction losses
lightweight flywheels just add engine responsiveness to throttle inputs

im talking about .5 bar=7.25 psi

the engine puts down 171 whp which is about 15% loss from the 200 crank hp

so through engine friction losses and transmission friction loss there's 15%

there's people who have made about 260whp from 7psi from a 1.8L 2zz-ge
thats a 100 whp boost
320whp from about 12 psi

the FA20 has .2 more liters which means you can flow more air than the 2zz-ge

im asking for 100whp with the same kinda of setup

i know a conservative tune (for most) would yield about 80whp with a few mods

things i plan on adding
intake/headers/exhaust/test pipe/cams/forged pistons/reinforced rod bearings/forged rods(if needed)/injectors/supercharger/meth injection(for track days)/race logic traction control/ and whatever stand alone i choose

im buying a fr-s, cash, for my dad while I'm in the airforce when it comes out so i can DD it when i visit on leave, then buying a track ver in japan while im based there and build it, ship it back when im done there and use it as a track car...

ill have a LHD and a RHD fr-s in my garage

ive spent enough time with my friends modifying cars to know whats doable
im pretty sure someone will try to make this car into a 300 whp NA beast at some point... and im pretty sure many will tell them its going to be too hard to do
EDIT
this is a BONE stock 2zz-ge 161whp 180 crank hp 1.8L engine with port injection (dyno shows 8psi garret GT28rs added then dyno'd)


and you telling me i cant get 300whp out of a 2.0L engine with direct injection....

[serialk11r]

Lightweight pulleys do not cause significant friction reduction...and flywheel horsepower is after all the engine's mechanical friction is accounted for. The car does not lose 15% to the wheels, it loses ~10% and then the dyno sees another missing 5% because the rotating mass is absorbing kinetic energy as it accelerates, and the 1% or so of energy that the tire is absorbing.

The 2ZZ-GE has .2L less displacement, but also revs higher to make up for it. The difference in revs is big enough that the FA pulls in about the same amount of air at peak power.

Anyways, I highly doubt you can hit 300 without swapped internals. Most I'd bet on is being able to match 2ZZ numbers.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

1 bar of pressure = about 14.5 psi at 14.5 psi the engines compression ratio doubles(or flow as much air as a double the liters your applying it to)

on a normal 10.5:1 compression engine 14.5 psi would equate to 21:1 and
at 7 psi would be 15:1 ratio and after losses about 30% increased efficiency

this i do understand

171 whp stock
10 whp intake
12 whp headers
5 whp exhaust
5 whp testpipe
1 whp lightweight pulleys
4 whp cat delete

208 whp after mods (underestimating gains)
X 30% from supercharger
=270 whp = 85% drivetrain loss
318 hp at the crank
302 hp at crank with I/H/E
260 hp at the crank without mods

300 crank hp is imaginable with basic supporting mods, 300 whp is my goal

How will you tune all those bolt on mods?

[HitTheGas]

I like that trunk lid spoiler because it's understated.

But i don't know if i $400 like it.

I really wish they'd offer packages from the factory. Give me nav, keyless entry & a security system, leather seats, running lights & a spoiler and i'll gladly spend another 2 grand.

[TRDGT86]

Yes, TRD brake kit is too way expensive..... Even my TRD buddy can give me good discount price but it still cost me $5K.....