Will the 2015 get this power boost?

[rickyb80]

I seriously hope that Scion/Toyota/Subaru does not do this until at least 2017. Most cars undergo major transformations every 4-6 years. The Scion just came out in 2012 and it's still 2013, to have such a drastic measure be taken to increase power during the infancy of this cars being would be a disservice to those that already own the car, in my opinion. For me, personally, I just bought my FRS 2 months ago and I will be irate if this thing gets an extra 50+ HP as soon as next year. For the love of god, a lot of people have a hard time getting an additional 40 HP from the Vortech supercharger kit. Also, by boring out the engine to 2.5L that's going to turn the 53/47 weight ratio into something more along the lines of 58/42. One has to wonder what Toyota plans to do in order to overcome this added weight and balance issue. They already did everything feasible in the 2.0L trim, so maybe they'll just embrace the whole heavier sports car mentality, who knows?

[Turbo95eg6]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Likelihood of whatever is decided upon making it to the BRZ? My guess is it's very high. Certainly won't be buying a 2014 now, and might hold off on that C7 I've been speccing....

Good for you, bro. Get it over with instead of obsessing about what Subaru comes out in the future.

[goshem]

highly doubt they are going to FI or go larger displacement for the twins. 2015 WRX is coming out next year it would be bad for the sales for the WRX if hp/tq went up significantly.

[Suberman]

Lexus coupe shown at the Tokyo motor show? Hybrid Powertrain? Looks a lot like a BRZ body shell.

[protpibe]

It just doesn't make sense to increase the power by over 30%.

I think it would be far more likely that they build a slightly larger 370z competitor based off the IS chassis than completely re-doing a car that is widely regarded as one of the best of it's generation. In fact, they've already said that they will release a new Supra-ish concept at the Detroit auto show in a very similar fashion to the annoucement of the FT86 back in the day.

For Toyota, just actually building the 86 caused enough of a ripple effect on their reputation to call it a job well done. Severing ties with their partner (whom they own a large part of) or adding a significant power boost, would essentially be internet fan service imo. The return on investment would be terrible when the realization that only a portion of the people saying "I'de buy one in a second!!!" would actually do it. Also, getting rid of the Boxer engine would go against their entire design philosophy. The boxer was chosen for it's extremely low center of gravity, not because of front/rear weight balance.

[SeanBlader]

I find it interesting how so many people think that this car is underpowered. The last generation of N/A sports car from Toyota was 100hp per liter, with 20HP less, and a 200 lb lighter car. No one complained about it being underpowered, in fact the Celica killed the then reigning production import, the GSR. Okay well in a drag race it was close, and on the road course it was arguably better.

Now here we are with a car that's more fun to drive, has better suspension, weight balance, and is rear wheel drive, and all people can complain about is the supposed lack of power. I'd say that's pretty good for a car under 30k. If you want to drag race get an AWD Turbo, if you want a daily driver with the option for road courses, autocrosses, or mountain roads, the dual mode driving of an NA is really the much better option.

I rather like being able to putz along under 4k RPMs and have a tame comfortable driving experience without the threat of police intervention every time I leave my garage, and then should I need to put some power down off the streets, I have that option. That way I'm not forced into a cost prohibited situation with a vehicle that's grossly overpowered for normal legal driving. Sure, given an unlimited budget I'd pick up some mid-engined 12 cylinder monster that would wrack up the tickets and probably get me killed, but in the real world, 200 HP is plenty to have a great driving experience.

But by all means continue to speculate, now that I've made my peace, I will go back to chillin' with fast drivers and observing people talking about fast cars.

[MarcL]

Originally Posted by SeanBlader

I find it interesting how so many people think that this car is underpowered. The last generation of N/A sports car from Toyota was 100hp per liter, with 20HP less, and a 200 lb lighter car. No one complained about it being underpowered, in fact the Celica killed the then reigning production import, the GSR. Okay well in a drag race it was close, and on the road course it was arguably better.

Now here we are with a car that's more fun to drive, has better suspension, weight balance, and is rear wheel drive, and all people can complain about is the supposed lack of power. I'd say that's pretty good for a car under 30k. If you want to drag race get an AWD Turbo, if you want a daily driver with the option for road courses, autocrosses, or mountain roads, the dual mode driving of an NA is really the much better option.

I rather like being able to putz along under 4k RPMs and have a tame comfortable driving experience without the threat of police intervention every time I leave my garage, and then should I need to put some power down off the streets, I have that option. That way I'm not forced into a cost prohibited situation with a vehicle that's grossly overpowered for normal legal driving. Sure, given an unlimited budget I'd pick up some mid-engined 12 cylinder monster that would wrack up the tickets and probably get me killed, but in the real world, 200 HP is plenty to have a great driving experience.

But by all means continue to speculate, now that I've made my peace, I will go back to chillin' with fast drivers and observing people talking about fast cars.

Couldn't agree more. I took out my BRZ this morning just to commute to work (left my snow car in the garage now that the weather has improved) and it instantly put a smile on my face. Not the most powerful car I've ever driven. But definitely the most fun.

[DylanFRS]

The problem with the "more powa" thing is that for a long time there has been a handful of enthusiasts (us) that wanted a cool, lightweight, RWD, sports car that we could afford. Something like an MX-5 but better looking and more practical. We would even say things like "It's okay if it doesn't have a ton of power, just make it fun to drive!" The rest of the enthusiasts were perfectly happy with their WRXs, EVOs, turbo'd Hondas, Mustangs, MS3s, S2000s, 350Zs, etc...

Well Toyota came along, and with the help of Subaru, built a car for those of us who had a dream for an affordable, lightweight, RWD coupe...

Unfortunately, it attracted the attention of all of the "other enthusiasts" who decided that it was a great car... if only it had more power. And unfortunately, those people became opinionated and very vocal about our affordable, lightweight, RWD sports car. Suddenly their WRXs and Evos and whatnot, weren't enough for them, they wanted our car... but more like their car...

Now we got the car we wanted, but there is a downside to every happy ending, and that is that we have to deal with them...

The End.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by rickyb80

I was thinking of a nice way to put this but......You're a fucking asshole bro.

You're right, I'll rephrase my third and fourth points because I think they are valid information that address your concerns.

3. There have been V8 swaps into the 86 that maintain a weight balance of approximately 56/44 with the OEM configuration being 53/47, that's a 6.0L LS2 I believe. I would not worry about a 2.5L throwing off the weight distribution (and if it did, it would be less than the V8's 56/44 which is still respectable, at most you'd see a 55/45 and likely 54/46 if there's any change at all) but rather any weight added due to changing safety standards and the demand for more luxury equipment (cameras for parking, sensors to do things automatically etc. etc.) or styling revisions.

4. This is all conjecture and rumors, a 2.5L FA block doesn't exist yet (outside Subaru R&D) and it is unlikely that they will go back to an FB or EJ or whatever as Subaru has said that the FA will be their future engine spreading throughout their entire lineup.


Apologies, I find it absurd when consumers think corporations owe them anything beyond what is initially promised and advertised. No auto manufacturer (to my knowledge) has pulled a bait and switch in decades like you proposed, they'll trumpet any upgrades for a good 4-6 months before they hit the showroom.

[rickyb80]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're right, I'll rephrase my third and fourth points because I think they are valid information that address your concerns.

3. There have been V8 swaps into the 86 that maintain a weight balance of approximately 56/44 with the OEM configuration being 53/47, that's a 6.0L LS2 I believe. I would not worry about a 2.5L throwing off the weight distribution (and if it did, it would be less than the V8's 56/44 which is still respectable, at most you'd see a 55/45 and likely 54/46 if there's any change at all) but rather any weight added due to changing safety standards and the demand for more luxury equipment (cameras for parking, sensors to do things automatically etc. etc.) or styling revisions.

4. This is all conjecture and rumors, a 2.5L FA block doesn't exist yet (outside Subaru R&D) and it is unlikely that they will go back to an FB or EJ or whatever as Subaru has said that the FA will be their future engine spreading throughout their entire lineup.


Apologies, I find it absurd when consumers think corporations owe them anything beyond what is initially promised and advertised. No auto manufacturer (to my knowledge) has pulled a bait and switch in decades like you proposed, they'll trumpet any upgrades for a good 4-6 months before they hit the showroom.

Thank you. I actually agree with you and I applaud you for taking the high road with your reply. Good point about the power to weight ration in V8 FRS', I didn't know that information.

Much respect to you.

Ricky

[Kwisak]

I couldn't see this really happening anytime soon, that said i know its subie, but i would love to see a super charger on this over a turbo

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Frstorm

In the article he said Toyota may go away from Subaru engine. I think they may move away from the partnership

The 86 was built to have the lowest engine and center of gravity possible. I think the Subaru boxer engine was a make or break point of this design. At least that's the impression the documentary videos seemed to leave me with. If Toyota had a suitable engine of their own to toss in, they probably would have flown solo.

[thill]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

The 86 was built to have the lowest engine and center of gravity possible. I think the Subaru boxer engine was a make or break point of this design. At least that's the impression the documentary videos seemed to leave me with. If Toyota had a suitable engine of their own to toss in, they probably would have flown solo.

The thing is, if all Toyota wanted was a boxer engine, they could have gotten Subaru to build them one but still built and assembled the rest of the car in Toyota factories and only released the car as a Toyota. When you watch the Subaru videos you realize that Subaru was doing a lot more then just providing an engine. I doubt the FT86 would have ever happened without the partnership.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

The 86 was built to have the lowest engine and center of gravity possible. I think the Subaru boxer engine was a make or break point of this design. At least that's the impression the documentary videos seemed to leave me with. If Toyota had a suitable engine of their own to toss in, they probably would have flown solo.

Originally Posted by thill

The thing is, if all Toyota wanted was a boxer engine, they could have gotten Subaru to build them one but still built and assembled the rest of the car in Toyota factories and only released the car as a Toyota. When you watch the Subaru videos you realize that Subaru was doing a lot more then just providing an engine. I doubt the FT86 would have ever happened without the partnership.

“It quickly became clear that we would need a flat-four cylinder or a rotary engine for such a ‘cool’ sports car. And by coincidence, Toyota and Subaru had just announced a collaboration deal. And although it wasn’t in the area of building a joint sports car, they did have a flat-four engine. In fact the deal was that Toyota was buying some Subaru shares back off General Motors and there was no financial benefit until we came along and suggested we talk to Subaru about their engine."

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/tada-how-to...eated-the-gt86

The 86 would have been built regardless of Subaru, the directive came from Akio Toyoda. No doubt that without Subaru's involvement the car would be VERY different as most articles point to FHI's manufacturing capability as a key part of getting this off the ground, Toyota didn't want to invest in opening a new plant. No argument that Subaru did most of the nitty gritty engineering (suspension refinement, every piece of sheetmetal goes through their machines to their drawings, they chose every nut and bolt on the car)

Would have been cool to see a Mazda collaboration but I have a feeling that a modified I4 from Toyota's current stable would have been more likely (especially given the focus on fuel economy and emissions), maybe even mounted at an angle to reduce the height.