FR-S/BRZ vs. Genesis Coupe

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i think you are confusing coincidence with cause and effect. i dont think weight and feel are related to eachother but they both add to fun. thats why a car built for fun will have light weight and good feel. my msp has more feel than my miata so im sure that weight cant be used as an indicator for feel.

interesting..i think that weight is directly related to feeling. But feeling is not directly related to weight.

Lets take a 92 Lexus SC300 for example.
When i drive that car under normal conditions, what i feel through the steering wheel is the weight of the car, as it numbs the response and feedback. Making it struggle a bit around right turns. cutting several pounds off the 3506lbs curb weight made a dramatic difference in acceleration response and steering wheel feedback as it turns through left and right intersections. It weight savings becomes more evident during spirited driving.

If i think of steering feeling and feedback, i think of suspension geometry, steering ratio, tire quality, etc.. in addition to weight. All of which contribute just as equally to feeling. If i wanted to improve my feeling, i could target better tires or better tuned suspension. Even without dropping weight, the feeling improves.

Basically;
if we target better weight...we can get better feeling
if we target better feeling, we have other options not related to weight.

the 5000lbs Bugatti Veyron is said to still has strong responsive feeling during cornering despite its weight. As is most road going supercars, supporting curb weights from 3400lbs-4500lbs.

[Dimman]

I wonder if the GenCoupe feel issues could be somewhat fixed by re-bushing linkages, etc...?

[Max Schnell]

Alot of talk about size. I think the average buyer care more about the extra stuff you get and the more usable space for the money. As much as we like to believe otherwise the diehard enthusiast is a minority.

One of my friend's comment on the Gen coupe is that it would be easier to drive if it was not Rwd.

[cassidy0998]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Eww....Grotesque..

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Hmm.

I do not think that weight affects feedback. Feedback is purely a tuning/steering/tire related affair.

However....while a heavy car and a light car be tuned for equal amounts of feedback....you might not like what the heavy car tells you, in comparison to the light car.

The heavy car is going to be saying "I'm not in the mood" while the light car is going to be saying "faster."

So yeah. Feedback is separate from weight (unless you start getting ridiculously light to where power steering/brakes aren't needed)...but feel certainly is not.

I agree with much of that, but how a car interacts with the road is transmitted through the tires, wheels, suspension, drivetrain, chassis, steering, etc. Having less mass in the drivetrain and chassis contributes to feedback.

Again, that doesn't mean a light car will always have better feedback than a heavier car.

BTW, my CRX didn't have power steering. So much awesome.

[serialk11r]

Speaking of power steering, I'll take the liberty to go off topic for a moment.
The FRS/BRZ has electric steering, I wonder what sort of motor they use...in the magazines they say it feels light, so that makes me wonder if the motor can be replaced with a smaller one for a low cost. If not, then reducing the voltage fed to the motor via PWM (if the motor can't handle PWM then a capacitor should fix that) could do the trick. I like heavy steering

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Speaking of power steering, I'll take the liberty to go off topic for a moment.
The FRS/BRZ has electric steering, I wonder what sort of motor they use...in the magazines they say it feels light, so that makes me wonder if the motor can be replaced with a smaller one for a low cost. If not, then reducing the voltage fed to the motor via PWM (if the motor can't handle PWM then a capacitor should fix that) could do the trick. I like heavy steering

x1,000,000

If the FR-S have light steering it would kill it for me. Heavier steering is the best feel and my RSX has lots of it through the steering.

[e30kawi]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Eww....Grotesque..

and that looks worse than a tc how?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

interesting..i think that weight is directly related to feeling. But feeling is not directly related to weight.

Lets take a 92 Lexus SC300 for example.
When i drive that car under normal conditions, what i feel through the steering wheel is the weight of the car, as it numbs the response and feedback. Making it struggle a bit around right turns. cutting several pounds off the 3506lbs curb weight made a dramatic difference in acceleration response and steering wheel feedback as it turns through left and right intersections. It weight savings becomes more evident during spirited driving.

If i think of steering feeling and feedback, i think of suspension geometry, steering ratio, tire quality, etc.. in addition to weight. All of which contribute just as equally to feeling. If i wanted to improve my feeling, i could target better tires or better tuned suspension. Even without dropping weight, the feeling improves.

Basically;
if we target better weight...we can get better feeling
if we target better feeling, we have other options not related to weight.

the 5000lbs Bugatti Veyron is said to still has strong responsive feeling during cornering despite its weight. As is most road going supercars, supporting curb weights from 3400lbs-4500lbs.

i would assume that that has more to do with the fact that the car designed at a certain weight and when you change that, the relationship between parts changes. as i have experienced there is going to be a larger perceived amount of information simple due to raised nvh.

i hear people saying that weight effects feedback but i havent seen a single reason why. there probably would be more feel or at least better feel but i dont understand the feedback thing. to me that seems to be an issue of the structural integrity of the involved components

[SLeRoux92]

the genesis WAS a beautiful car. The k9-k12 was stunning IMO and pretty fun to drive at that, but the overhaul of the k13 is horrendous at best, sure, it's faster, but just so you have no time to stare at that terrible abortion they call a front end. NOTHING is right about the aesthetic portion they changed, so the engine makeover means nothing to me. Cars are not all about power. It's about what you feel for it and how the car relates to you on a deeper level. I sound like the guy from e-harmony, jesus.

Anyways, hyundai lost a customer to toyota thanks to their little makeover, good job korea!

[cassidy0998]

Originally Posted by e30kawi

and that looks worse than a tc how?

I wasn't going to say it...... but.......

[vq37]

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/ge...full-test.html


Looks like the new v6 is pretty quick in a line. Insidelines numbers show that its as fast as a 370z to 60, and is pulling away from the 370z at 1 mph at the 1/4th mile lol.

[cassidy0998]

Originally Posted by vq37

http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/ge...full-test.html


Looks like the new v6 is pretty quick in a line. Insidelines numbers show that its as fast as a 370z to 60, and is pulling away from the 370z at 1 mph at the 1/4th mile lol.

not bad considering it has 4 seats vs. the Z's 2.

[Sasquachulator]

Around the 3 min mark he mentions how the Genesis could be compared with the FRS/BRZ and he says you cant really compare the two. They feel different in their approach to sports cars, even though they do overlap when it comes to price.

Kind of shows where the two cars would be positioned. The FRS/BRZ is looking very much like its competing with the likes of the FWD compact 2 door sports cars (Kia Forte Koup, Scion tC, Civic SI), and the Mazda Miata, with its major trump card being RWD and true sporting pretensions.

IF Toyota were to make a competitor to the Genesis, 370Z, RX8, V6 ponycars, etc, it'd most likely be a Supra successor.