Winter Driving?

[theurbaninja]

Just came here to say my FR-S has been great in the winter here in Alberta. Tons of fun and has no issues plowing through snow.

Sure, you have to pay a little more attention but that's the small price you pay for a lightweight RWD sports car. Good times!

[Sambo FRS]

Ah man I put my FRS in storage a few weeks back, and now I'm majorly regretting it. I'm currently driving a 93 ford ranger (4x4), and while its certainly safer than the FRS, its a pretty big eye sore.

I bet I would have been happier getting studded tires.

[jimmillion]

Is anyone adding concrete and or sand bags to weigh down the rear? I was thinking two 40kilo bags of concrete, but what do you guys think?


Drove thru a good amount today on the highway and that back end is still too lively even at speed...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[1Cor10:23]

Does anyone notice that the car had a bias as to which side the rear gives to when you lose traction in the snow? I find my frs prefers to swing the tail to passenger side when going straight and giving a bit of gas swings the rear out.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[brzr]

i just took my car to a parking lot to try out some donuts......after a while i started getting motion sickness lol

but it was definitely fun, and nice to see how the car handles in the snowed in streets

[Frost]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

if you leave the nannies on they will keep you safe.. but they won't let you drive the car

remember that traction control limits your throttle imput.. it won't let you spin the tires

and VCS starts playing with the brakes to control slides, so when you start to slide it stops it right when you instinctivly begin to counter-street and throttle correct


sometimes you need to slide and slip just a little bit to gain traction (and have a little fun)

in the worst snow storms if you leave them ON you're not gonna be going anywhere...

QFT - my old IS300 got stuck several times and there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to completely put that thing in true manual and stop all nannies from kicking in. There was a TRAC OFF button but it still throttled my rears to some degree and the manumatic wasn't really the same as if I had a true manual and geared up to reduce torque to the wheels.

I had to be pushed out of what my old MR2 would have probably gotten out easily due to lack of nannies and pure manual everything.

Now that I drive an Echo hatch where the only nanny is the ABS, I haven't encountered a situation (keep in mind I try NOT to put myself in a sticky situation either) where I couldn't get out of easily whereas the old IS300 would have needed a lot more work.

Like every car I have owned - whenever it snowed heavily (like tonight in Toronto), I always took it to a parking lot at midnight and did maneuvers to see what the tires, suspension and chassis would do if I need to suddenly swerve, go up a hill on turn, brake hard, etc.

[tanner]

Finally got a test of the car tonight here north of Toronto. Hmm which one to use to drive to my friend's daughter's birthday, the A4 quattro or the BRZ with the WS70 tires. This was at around 4:30pm so there was snow on the ground but nothing too significant yet.

So we took the BRZ.

Coming home tonight, slight incline on the way out, yeah traction was brutal. Traction control turned off, a bit of gas but not too much, need a bit of wheel spin. Leaving TC on resulted in going nowhere really fast faster. With TC off car starts to kick out one way but honestly nothing surprised here, driven past RWD cars and they behaved similarly.

Other than that, left traction control off, drove decently with RWD in mind, and got home eventually. Too much gas, and yes the back end will kick out, but that's pretty well anything IMO.

Though right now, I rather be out in the quattro doing nice drifts around corners!

[mabviper]

I'd like to weigh in as well during tonight's storm. I just got home from a drive across the city at Highway 7 and Steeles. The road were covered with powder snow. No trace of salt either.

I was initially driving with everything on but I found that my BRZ would do weird things when they came on. It felt like it wanted to oscillate when the rear end slipped out. I particularly didn't like it. For me, VSC mode in sport gave me the most confidence. Once the rear end slipped out, it was easy to correct. It was also helpful in making tight turns cause it'll allow you to steer the car with the gas pedal. Also for safety reasons, for me and other drivers on the road, I didn't fully turn off traction control.

I'm driving a stock BRZ with WS70 and no additional weights in the trunk.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by mabviper

I was initially driving with everything on but I found that my BRZ would do weird things when they came on. It felt like it wanted to oscillate when the rear end slipped out. I particularly didn't like it.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I felt that rapid oscillation too with VSC in the rear when I drove on packed snow and ice last month on unplowed side streets up in Markham with Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 tires but at least it kept the car tracking straight. Maybe it's the way the LSD and VSC fighting with each other? VSC Sport mode would make so much sense in these conditions then.

In a GTI with ESP even continuously coming on you won't feel anything, and the car will keep going straight even with the tail perpetually kicked out a bit and steering being corrected. I drove with the stock Dunlop SP Sport 01 A/S tires for 3 winters with no issues other than ice. Once I got Pirelli Winter Carving snow tires the ESP almost never kicked in ever (but I hated the handling on bone dry winter roads). I was lucky to have the early version of the car where ESP can be completely turned off to get out of deep snow, I hear the newer German cars it is impossible to completely defeat the system.

The BRZ where traction control and stability control could be adjusted / defeated separately is a very good thing.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by 1Cor10:23

Does anyone notice that the car had a bias as to which side the rear gives to when you lose traction in the snow? I find my frs prefers to swing the tail to passenger side when going straight and giving a bit of gas swings the rear out.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

Is that road camber drift? When the tires lose traction the car should slide down any camber in the road, no matter how slight.

I have noticed that drive alternates from left to right and vice versa, oscillates, whenever traction is low but fairly equal. I think this is the due to the way the Torsen transfers torque. I also think this effect is amplified whenever the TC or VSC applies one rear brake. Perhaps even more so when TC or VSC is switching from one rear brake to the other.

This would explain why the car becomes relatively docile with TC and VSC switched off.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by jimmillion

Is anyone adding concrete and or sand bags to weigh down the rear? I was thinking two 40kilo bags of concrete, but what do you guys think?


Drove thru a good amount today on the highway and that back end is still too lively even at speed...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Because the weight distribution is already fairly close to 50/50 I do t think weighting the trunk will help this car. The issue is straight line stability and adding weight in the trunk could just make that worse.

[1Cor10:23]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Is that road camber drift? When the tires lose traction the car should slide down any camber in the road, no matter how slight.

I have noticed that drive alternates from left to right and vice versa, oscillates, whenever traction is low but fairly equal. I think this is the due to the way the Torsen transfers torque. I also think this effect is amplified whenever the TC or VSC applies one rear brake. Perhaps even more so when TC or VSC is switching from one rear brake to the other.

This would explain why the car becomes relatively docile with TC and VSC switched off.

That sounds about right, probably tsc applying uneven breaking in rear

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk

[jimmillion]

I'm glad this thread exist. Its good to hear that people were seeing it step out to the passenger side too.

I'll give VSC sport mode a try around the city today and see if its more manageable. Yesterday the constant throttle dampening and brake biasing was ticking me off every time I wanted to counter and power thru.


Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[navanodd]

I had a chance to go for a drive a little while ago - the streets are wet, snowy and cleanup is by no means nearing completion in downtown Halifax.


First impressions are great. Comparing to a 2001 Accord and 2006 CRV with "old fashioned" studded snow tires, the BRZ with Xi3's drove better with the exception of one case - pulling away from a dead stop. I had to rock the car twice to get going, something I would not have had to do in either of the Hondas.


I was shocked at the amount of lateral grip these tires have. I didn't have a parking lot big enough to get enough momentum to spin the car. Also, the lack of understeer is very new to me. The BRZ definitely likes to hunt for ruts, something that has been said before. Overall the car was super predictable and performed a lot better than I expected.


I preferred driving it with VSC Sport Mode on, and Trac "Off". (ie, tap VSC sport and tap Trac - nothing fully off) Otherwise there was just a lot of power sapping going on. Just a general note - ABS has come a long way since 2001, the braking performance was definitely confidence inspiring.