FR-S/BRZ VS. WRX??? - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

dsgerbc · 02-18-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

A WRX weigh 3200+ lbs with 265hp and a BRZ weigh 2750+ lbs with 200hp. I don't see how it has a better P2W ratio.

3200/(265*.7)=17.25 lbs/hp
2750/(200*.85)=16.18 lbs/hp

tranzformer · 02-18-2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Retune WRX to 300whp? I don't think so. It would require 430hp at the crank.
BRZ has more power to weight than the WRX, and by retuning you lose engine warranty. With current 2.5L - I would not want to own it w/o warranty. I might consider a new WRX with 2.0 or 1.6 engine, if they still have a hatch.

And there's already a long thread on this.

430 @ crank for 300 whp? Say 20-25% drivetrain loss for AWD. You would need 375-400 crank hp. Not 430hp.

Never heard about 300whp with just a tune on a WRX. Cobb AP stage 2 gets you to about 250-260 whp. But that is with some supporting mods.

neutron256 · 02-18-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

well like i said just about every category. and lets be honest, less than 5% of car enthusiasts spend any real time on these surfaces and they wouldnt do it with a brand new car anyways.

Another broad statement. It depends a lot on where you live. I'm in Minnesota and driving on snow and ice is a daily fact of life four months out of the year. I wouldn't be considering the BRZ at all if I still had a daily commute, and didn't have another car better suited to winter conditions.

dsgerbc · 02-18-2012, 11:45 PM

^I knew enough people in MN who DD their miatas in winter. They are okay with a rear LSD and winter tires. New WRXs don't even come with locking rear diff, so they'll have two driven wheels on slick surface, same as BRZ. Sure, there's probably an eLSD functionality, but I'm not sure how useful it is.

I can see enough people choosing predictability of RWD w/LSD over AWD with just center diff.

The only thing BRZ will lack relative to WRX is ground clearance. It could be an issue if one lives far enough from major metro with regular street cleaning. Otherwise RWD would be pretty livable in MN.

fatoni · 02-19-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neutron256

Another broad statement. It depends a lot on where you live. I'm in Minnesota and driving on snow and ice is a daily fact of life four months out of the year. I wouldn't be considering the BRZ at all if I still had a daily commute, and didn't have another car better suited to winter conditions.

you are making sense but i still think that sports cars rarely see this kind of driving. if it was a big issue to the op i doubt he would be comparing them. besides, this whole sidebar came because i said the mustang was a better sporty car than the wrx. commuting and winter driveablility arent primary concerns for sporty cars

tranzformer · 02-19-2012, 12:15 AM

Some would argue that the FRS/BRZ isn't a sports car. To each their own. I think the WRX is a great car and I am still tempted by it. Not so much the current version, but the possible refresh and probably why I will wait for the BRZ to be out for a year before I make the leap. Ultimately a car that puts a smile on your face is what you are looking for. Question is if the WRX or BRZ will do that for you longer.

cassidy0998 · 02-19-2012, 12:30 AM

People buy cars for different reasons. When some people look at a WRX they just see a regular sedan/hatchback and can't differentiate it from a Honda or any other kind of car on the road. Then they see a BRZ, a 2 door coupe.

hp means nothing to them
rwd/awd makes no difference

but it's a cute sporty little car instead of a station wagon...

If the FR-S ends up being $26k as many are predicting, and the BRZ creeps up close to $30kish. I'd MUCH rather have the performance/versatility of the WRX. I'm a big believer that the price of the BRZ is going to be based around the hype of the car and it being "better" than the FR-S. I don't really care to play that game. But hopefully the FR-S will be a lot cheaper than what we're expecting - we'll see!

tranzformer · 02-19-2012, 12:55 AM

^ I think that is how many of us feel (myself included). If it is over priced it will be dead to us and we will move on to another car. Price is really the last piece to the puzzle so to speak.

Snoopyalien24 · 02-19-2012, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranzformer

^ I think that is how many of us feel (myself included). If it is over priced it will be dead to us and we will move on to another car. Price is really the last piece to the puzzle so to speak.

After this "piece of the puzzle" is finished, what happens to the forum? What do we wait or speculate on? What leaks to we search for?

fatoni · 02-19-2012, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

After this "piece of the puzzle" is finished, what happens to the forum? What do we wait or speculate on? What leaks to we search for?

we will just speculate how we are ended up spending 30k on a scion

tranzformer · 02-19-2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

After this "piece of the puzzle" is finished, what happens to the forum? What do we wait or speculate on? What leaks to we search for?

We could make new threads on why no push start in FRS.

Zgrinch · 02-19-2012, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24

After this "piece of the puzzle" is finished, what happens to the forum? What do we wait or speculate on? What leaks to we search for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranzformer

We could make new threads on why no push start in FRS.

oh I know..... The one word I'm tried of hearing....

TURBO

Guff · 02-19-2012, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

oh I know..... The one word I'm tried of hearing....

TURBO

Lol

Maxim · 02-19-2012, 08:12 AM

The WRX vs BRZ/FR-S comparison is a very interesting one.

The WRX's advantages:
4/5 doors with moderately comfy back seats
Significantly faster acceleration
Significantly easier to make more power
Summer tire option means cornering grip is probably higher

BRZ/FR-S advantages:
Much better fuel economy
Much better handling
Slap good summer tires on it and absolute cornering limits will be higher
Plenty of power and low weight means it's more than capable of getting out of it's own way
With seats folded, can swallow a surprising amount of stuff

So, do you absolutely NEED the extra interior space and power? Slap good summer rubber on a BRZ/FR-S and it's going to corner harder, and it already handles way better. It's going to be about the same in terms of speed/acceleration as my '10 GTI, but better off the line since it's not FWD. My GTI, when it was stock, was by no means slow. I had lots of fun with it.

I wouldn't really place any "value" on AWD (over RWD anyways). The only thing it really helps is getting going in slippery conditions. It adds weight and complexity. RWD cars handle great in slippery conditions - they continue to be successful rally vehicles. The 911 is especially adept on the dirt. With the skinny tires, a sane ride-height and low weight, I expect the BRZ/FR-S will be an absolutely great winter vehicle with a set of blizzaks. Slap some Rally Armor on it and I bet it'd be an absolute blast to hoon around gravel roads with too.

And then there's the feel. I've driven plenty of WRXs, including newer STIs. They are fast, but they feel like they're fighting you the whole time. They still feel like a compact sedan.

From all the reports/reviews, the BRZ/FR-S feels special. It's an actual sports car. The interior is just as plain as the WRX, but it's laid out entirely for the purpose of enthusiast driving.

02-18-2012, 11:45 PM	#18
dsgerbc Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: BRZ(sold), STI Location: A2, MI Posts: 1,915 Thanks: 176 Thanked 419 Times in 241 Posts Mentioned: 11 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	^I knew enough people in MN who DD their miatas in winter. They are okay with a rear LSD and winter tires. New WRXs don't even come with locking rear diff, so they'll have two driven wheels on slick surface, same as BRZ. Sure, there's probably an eLSD functionality, but I'm not sure how useful it is. I can see enough people choosing predictability of RWD w/LSD over AWD with just center diff. The only thing BRZ will lack relative to WRX is ground clearance. It could be an issue if one lives far enough from major metro with regular street cleaning. Otherwise RWD would be pretty livable in MN.

02-19-2012, 12:15 AM	#20
tranzformer Delights in pure handling Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: Zoom Zoom Location: KS Posts: 4,854 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Some would argue that the FRS/BRZ isn't a sports car. To each their own. I think the WRX is a great car and I am still tempted by it. Not so much the current version, but the possible refresh and probably why I will wait for the BRZ to be out for a year before I make the leap. Ultimately a car that puts a smile on your face is what you are looking for. Question is if the WRX or BRZ will do that for you longer.

02-19-2012, 12:30 AM	#21
cassidy0998 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Drives: '99 Ranger / '94 APU Supra / Ninja! Location: Missississississippi Posts: 462 Thanks: 3 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	People buy cars for different reasons. When some people look at a WRX they just see a regular sedan/hatchback and can't differentiate it from a Honda or any other kind of car on the road. Then they see a BRZ, a 2 door coupe. hp means nothing to them rwd/awd makes no difference but it's a cute sporty little car instead of a station wagon... If the FR-S ends up being $26k as many are predicting, and the BRZ creeps up close to $30kish. I'd MUCH rather have the performance/versatility of the WRX. I'm a big believer that the price of the BRZ is going to be based around the hype of the car and it being "better" than the FR-S. I don't really care to play that game. But hopefully the FR-S will be a lot cheaper than what we're expecting - we'll see!

02-19-2012, 12:55 AM	#22
tranzformer Delights in pure handling Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: Zoom Zoom Location: KS Posts: 4,854 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	^ I think that is how many of us feel (myself included). If it is over priced it will be dead to us and we will move on to another car. Price is really the last piece to the puzzle so to speak.

02-19-2012, 08:12 AM	#28
Maxim Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Drives: 2010 GTI 2dr Tornado Red Location: Afghanistan Posts: 489 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	The WRX vs BRZ/FR-S comparison is a very interesting one. The WRX's advantages: 4/5 doors with moderately comfy back seats Significantly faster acceleration Significantly easier to make more power Summer tire option means cornering grip is probably higher BRZ/FR-S advantages: Much better fuel economy Much better handling Slap good summer tires on it and absolute cornering limits will be higher Plenty of power and low weight means it's more than capable of getting out of it's own way With seats folded, can swallow a surprising amount of stuff So, do you absolutely NEED the extra interior space and power? Slap good summer rubber on a BRZ/FR-S and it's going to corner harder, and it already handles way better. It's going to be about the same in terms of speed/acceleration as my '10 GTI, but better off the line since it's not FWD. My GTI, when it was stock, was by no means slow. I had lots of fun with it. I wouldn't really place any "value" on AWD (over RWD anyways). The only thing it really helps is getting going in slippery conditions. It adds weight and complexity. RWD cars handle great in slippery conditions - they continue to be successful rally vehicles. The 911 is especially adept on the dirt. With the skinny tires, a sane ride-height and low weight, I expect the BRZ/FR-S will be an absolutely great winter vehicle with a set of blizzaks. Slap some Rally Armor on it and I bet it'd be an absolute blast to hoon around gravel roads with too. And then there's the feel. I've driven plenty of WRXs, including newer STIs. They are fast, but they feel like they're fighting you the whole time. They still feel like a compact sedan. From all the reports/reviews, the BRZ/FR-S feels special. It's an actual sports car. The interior is just as plain as the WRX, but it's laid out entirely for the purpose of enthusiast driving.

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