Is Speed Density tuning required for under 400HP street driven cars

[jamesm]

so really it's not a question of when you 'need' sd, it's when does an sd tune become the better option, or when do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks vs. using maf. one isn't 'better' than the other. they're different approaches to the same problem, each better suited to it's own range of use cases.

[Rombinhood@OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

You could with a larger 3.5" tube but thats not why goal. Te cars run into a number of other issues above the 400 mark besides MAF. that seems to be more of a concern for a basis on software vs software argument. Ive moved past the MAF issue long time back. Ive been working on making the power reliably with some new changes we have been testing. these are software related so dont bother trying to drag out another discussion. these are physical issues on individual components in the vehicle.

Well FI is a drug and knowing you can get more and seeing your friends gets more usually changes you individual goals in a short time frame. Its one thing when youre stuck with something that has no aftermarket support, but once you have backing you tend to grow a little each day as what your new expectations will be out a of a vehicle. I remember when 300hp was great in this little car, then i felt 400hp and the car still was well mannered....hmmm then came 450hp ok this is feeling nice.....how about 500hp....Now thats a car..... every new goal raises the bar and honestly until you experience it you cant say it isnt pleasant and worth the effort. Your always happy with your car till you drive something better thats within your budget. Same thing with everything else in life.

IMHO, for high power levels, there does come a time when a standalone EMS makes more sense than a reprogrammed ecu. This way you can use general purpose pipits to control thighs like fmic spray, meth injection, boost control, realtime tuning, user tuning, data acquisition, and so on.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

You could with a larger 3.5" tube but thats not why goal. Te cars run into a number of other issues above the 400 mark besides MAF. that seems to be more of a concern for a basis on software vs software argument. Ive moved past the MAF issue long time back. Ive been working on making the power reliably with some new changes we have been testing. these are software related so dont bother trying to drag out another discussion. these are physical issues on individual components in the vehicle.

See now this post didn't offer anything, either there is info you can share or not, people come to a forum for info, if you don't care to, or can't, that's that but why post to the masses like they are too stupid or not privileged to the info? I don't like this hush hush secrecy that the "tuners" on this board sell. If it is a software limitation then as far as I see it you are lying to the customer base you are selling to, if it is a mechanical limitation it should be made known aswell, so others can avoid the same pitfall...

It's sad that discussions must be "drug out" try being forthcoming and not shady and the discussions won't be a drag.

[vgi]

Originally Posted by jamesm

so really it's not a question of when you 'need' sd, it's when does an sd tune become the better option, or when do the benefits outweigh the drawbacks vs. using maf. one isn't 'better' than the other. they're different approaches to the same problem, each better suited to it's own range of use cases.

not to start flairs here but there was promotion of ecutek because it has support for SD tuning unlike other tuning platforms, thus the question in the topic.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

See now this post didn't offer anything, either there is info you can share or not, people come to a forum for info, if you don't care to, or can't, that's that but why post to the masses like they are too stupid or not privileged to the info? I don't like this hush hush secrecy that the "tuners" on this board sell. If it is a software limitation then as far as I see it you are lying to the customer base you are selling to, if it is a mechanical limitation it should be made known aswell, so others can avoid the same pitfall...

It's sad that discussions must be "drug out" try being forthcoming and not shady and the discussions won't be a drag.

we had a guy that did that sort of thing... but he's not here to contribute today lol.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by vgi

not to start flairs here but there was promotion of ecutek because it has support for SD tuning unlike other tuning platforms, thus the question in the topic.

the question in the topic has been answered. there is no point (in terms of whp) at which you 'need' sd. there is a point at which it becomes a good idea, but it has a lot more to do with your hardware configuration than how much power you're making.

[FA20Club.com]

I havent seen whp dictate it yet. Seems to be based on the turbo itself and geographic location as to how close you get to maxing it out. Other than that there is no set point to speak of.

[FA20Club.com]

Originally Posted by Rombinhood@OpenFlash

IMHO, for high power levels, there does come a time when a standalone EMS makes more sense than a reprogrammed ecu. This way you can use general purpose pipits to control thighs like fmic spray, meth injection, boost control, realtime tuning, user tuning, data acquisition, and so on.

Generally i dont use meth so or spray my cooler. I prefer to use other viable options; such as a Honeywell core to increase efficiency or high octane fuel. As far as input yes you do make a valid point there. real time tuning is perfect for steady state testing and analysis i will agree there. But learning to evaluate a datalog in its entirety makes for a better tuner and much less swing and miss style tuning when relying on realtime. In my opinion this will make sure a much better tuner in the long run when you have realtime ability on hand. Until that day ill save my pennies (Motec) since i dont have a full time racecar where ive outgrown the current logging capability's at hand. Inout brake pressure, suspension travel, wastegate position etc loggable inputs would lead you towards a standalone, yes. But its a street car I only need so much right now. I borrowed that sentiment....

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by jamesm

we had a guy that did that sort of thing... but he's not here to contribute today lol.

Careful now...You don't want to be put on timeout

[s2d4]

In that case, for 99.99% of the street cars, there is no need for SD. And for that 0.01%, they can go with the motec.

So the target audience is so small that touting it as a feature is only there to serve as a marketing ploy to make money. i.e. the masses paying for a feature that only the select few uses. Sounds like a crap deal for the customers.

[FA20Club.com]

I think the way to find out is buy a turbo kit and see how far you get and post the results. other than James i dont see anyone trying to do this for the community but many opinions on it.

[mrk1]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

I think the way to find out is buy a turbo kit and see how far you get and post the results. other than James i dont see anyone trying to do this for the community but many opinions on it.

Great advice, if only more people did this. My question about SD vs MAF are because I am building my own turbo setup. I need to decide if I weld on a MAF flange or IAT bung.

[FA20Club.com]

If youre not trying to kick in the door you can stick to the MAF depending on the turbo size to be honest and your HP goals. If you want you can email your specs and ill see if i have done that turbo before and ill let you know from there.

[CajunFRS]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

See now this post didn't offer anything, either there is info you can share or not, people come to a forum for info, if you don't care to, or can't, that's that but why post to the masses like they are too stupid or not privileged to the info? I don't like this hush hush secrecy that the "tuners" on this board sell. If it is a software limitation then as far as I see it you are lying to the customer base you are selling to, if it is a mechanical limitation it should be made known aswell, so others can avoid the same pitfall...

It's sad that discussions must be "drug out" try being forthcoming and not shady and the discussions won't be a drag.

You're crazy viable information would never be held back from this community.

I can see things being transparent one day. Regardless of how hard some try to fight it.