Toyota FT-86 VS Nissan IDx FreeFlow: Battle of The Japanese Compact Cars

[bestwheelbase]

I like both. I hope the IDx comes to market as an affordable (under $24k), reliable (no DI issues), lightweight (under 2800lbs) rear-drive two-door coupe.

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I also find it hilarious that Nissan exec calls the Toyobaru "midlife crisis car" and then comes out with a competitor decked out in retro styling that will really only appeal to the nostalgics or odd-balls.

Perhaps because they are going to hit the market with the $20k pricetag we all hoped the FRS would be at, and in doing so pitch it as a young person's car. While clearly still catching nostalgics and mid-lifers who recognize that simple pure cars are best.

I wonder what the wheelbase will be.

[OICU812]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Dafuq are you smoking?

I also find it hilarious that Nissan exec calls the Toyobaru "midlife crisis car" and then comes out with a competitor decked out in retro styling that will really only appeal to the nostalgics or odd-balls.

LOL

[idario]

I'm an oddball. I'm kind of excited about a 510 remake.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Perhaps because they are going to hit the market with the $20k pricetag we all hoped the FRS would be at, and in doing so pitch it as a young person's car. While clearly still catching nostalgics and mid-lifers who recognize that simple pure cars are best.

I wonder what the wheelbase will be.

If $5k is the difference between "young and fresh" and "mid life crisis" what does that make the 350Z/370Z? If price were the only thing required to get young buyers they'd be flooding us with kei cars not sports cars, hot versions of the Fit/Yaris/Versa/2

As stated earlier in the thread, average purchase price of new cars is around $32k.

Yeah if they tweak the engine from the Juke (~190 hp already) and reuse bits and pieces from other product lines it'll be cheap but I doubt they could undercut cars like the Abarth or Fiesta ST which have previous architecture to build on, this thing can't be any cheaper than $22k unless it's ridiculously milquetoast, that money has to go into test driving and refinement to make it actually fun. I was glancing through articles and Akio Toyoda was test driving GT86 prototypes on a monthly basis and criticizing even calling some versions boring soulless and "if this is the best you can do we might as well give up", that can't be cheap.

Cars have always been a luxury item, manufacturers have seem to forgotten that in the post WW2 economic boom when a large portion of the world had a significant amount of disposable income. Times are changing, stop trying to capture the tech generation and just build the best damn car you can. We're smart, we can figure out who's putting out crap and when we do have the money we'll buy the car that makes the most economic sense until we get the disposable income to buy something new.

Don't design for the showroom today, design for craigslist five-ten years from now, the Japanese are still coasting on the reputation they built in the 80's, adding in navigation and displays that tell you how economically you're driving will be irrelevant by the time a millenial gets their hands on it.

/irrelevant rant from an anonymous internet poster

[gymratter]

im not a huge fan of the IDx concept. but ill hold off judgement until the production car is release. however if the 370z and bladeglider are previews of things to come than i wouldnt hold my breath for anything amazing (styling wise).

[bestwheelbase]

Would read again.

[gymratter]

good point has been brought up, usually older people are into the retro look. im 28 and i like the sleek and sexy look of the 86/frs.

[supragoods]

Dodge dart this is what you should have look like. (smh) personal plates should say Finn Mcmissle

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by gymratter

good point has been brought up, usually older people are into the retro look...

yaaaaaa.....bring em back ..... those of us who can still drive will buy a bunch of them......

humfrz

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Dafuq are you smoking? The 510 was a sports car in an econo box body, much closer to the ae86 Corolla inspiration than the Toyobaru ever got, they are still regularly raced from local AutoX and HPDE to world famous vintage races (Laguna Seca comes to mind). How many races did the 2000GT win? The 510 dominated SCCA. If this hits the target (1.6L Turbo, RWD, < 3,000 lbs, 6 speed MT, <$30k) it would be the closest competition the 86 will likely ever see in it's lifetime with the only current alternatives being muscle cars with 300+ hp and well over 3,200 lbs or a roadster (really just the Miata at this point, Alfa in the future).

Very much apples to apples aside from the styling choices.

I also find it hilarious that Nissan exec calls the Toyobaru "midlife crisis car" and then comes out with a competitor decked out in retro styling that will really only appeal to the nostalgics or odd-balls.

Look I agree with you on alot of what you are saying, but please consider this The FT86 was based on 3 cars 2000gt, the 80 and The Ae86 and created by two companies. And this isn't based like based on the body, it's based on the spirit, it's based on what those cars represented in different eras. Now if this was an apple to apple comparison it would be something that is based on a single car to make it fair. The only way this is at all a fair comparison aside from the fact that they are both based on some spirit of something is if the FT86 concept was based on nothing else but the AE86 being it's also like you said and Econobox race car like the corolla it used to be. That would make it fair since the 510 and this IDX is still a 510, there's no Silvia or Z influenced at all.

Lastly, you mentioned how you find it hilarious about what that exec said, and I do too I'm not arguing with you on many grounds I'm just trying to point out how the comparison is very unfair. I mean really are you gonna listen to this exec that obviously don't know at all what he's talking about saying that this is the competition for the 86, when clearly the press release says it's a design study that may or may never make production.

We knew about Toyota's intent when they came out with FT86 concept, they had told the world about the collab, now this 510 shows up as just some random hommage. I Do not, believe for a second that this is what they are going to make and use as competition until it's in full writing full press release.

It's not just Nissan we heard many car companies before the execs come out to say we have this and this ready to battle this and it never happens or it's far from the truth.

[RRnold]

I loved everything about the FT86 because so it looked close to an actual production vehicle. Then Toyota threw a curve ball with the MKII and MKIII concepts, the joint partnership and then the Scion announcement.

The IDX concept is interesting in it's own way but I know the production model won't look anything like that. If anything, it'll look boring just like the other Nissan models (except the GTR). If it's RWD, makes decent power and is lightweight, it'll have potential.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by gymratter

good point has been brought up, usually older people are into the retro look. im 28 and i like the sleek and sexy look of the 86/frs.

That Nissan looks like ass, not retro.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I'm just trying to point out how the comparison is very unfair.

I Do not, believe for a second that this is what they are going to make and use as competition until it's in full writing full press release.

Ah see, I can't comprehend how this is an unfair comparison. Both are theoretically focusing on the same few goals:

Economical to buy, own and operate, same price range
Focus on fun over performance, similar performance
Return to prior successes of parent companies

I guess your argument is that the Toyobaru is more of a thoroughbred due to the inspiration from the 2000GT and... the 80? Not sure what that is, unless you mean the Sports 800? In any case the 86 drew inspiration from what is practically a super car, does that mean it should be considered a higher echelon than say the Mustang? Cayman? M3? If in the next press release they say that they're pulling inspiration from the GTR does that automatically make up the 'gap' to the Toyobaru?

Bottom line is on paper these two cars could be very much apples to apples, regardless of the inspiration.

And you're absolutely right, we're dealing in hypotheticals and this thing is definitely the product of a concept team, lots of experiments that will never see a production line.