SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[des]

Rick pulls results from dozens of regions; he's reached out several times to clarify results that look odd, so it's not just talk.

He gains nothing from a "screw you" -- he has never presented pax as anything other than his highly educated guess. Indexes very far from reality over a period of time will kill pax.

That said, I think there are alternatives in the works, and when one works better (how would we measure that?) it will take over. In the meantime, remember that Rick created a more uniform way to make the kinds of comparisons we all would be making anyway -- on a volunteer basis. He deserves our respect for that.

I think classing will be a bigger issue than indexes for 2014.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by des

He gains nothing from a "screw you" -- he has never presented pax as anything other than his highly educated guess. Indexes very far from reality over a period of time will kill pax.

Sure he does. When the SEB promoted the idea of moving stock classes to street tire, everyone split into two camps. Supporters, and the old guys that have all the money in the world to buy 3 sets of race tires every year. Rick drives a C-Mod car, I wonder which camp he settled into.

I have, and seen other people, provide plenty of numbers to show why the new street pax isn't even in the ballpark. I would love some numbers to support why it is a "close estimate".

[toeout]

Any of you C-street peeps making a move to STX?

I decided on STX even before the 2014 PAX and now I'm even more glad that I did. The savings to stay in C-Street didn't add up for me, unless I kept everything stock.

[jprice130]

Yeah, it definitely seems like Rick went way conservative on the new Street classes. It does seem extreme, but to be fair, he upped his C-Mod PAX by quite a bit from 2013 (.910 to .922).

If I'm running in any Street prepped cars next year, I will be avoiding all Match Tours and any local "Pro" or "X" PAX classes. STX is definitely looking much more appealing. Anyone want some 17x7 Koseis and 225 Rivals? LOL!

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by jprice130

Yeah, it definitely seems like Rick went way conservative on the new Street classes. It does seem extreme, but to be fair, he upped his C-Mod PAX by quite a bit from 2013 (.910 to .922).

If I'm running in any Street prepped cars next year, I will be avoiding all Match Tours and any local "Pro" or "X" PAX classes. STX is definitely looking much more appealing. Anyone want some 17x7 Koseis and 225 Rivals? LOL!

I'd be interested if you do plan to move. Send me a message if you decide to put them up for sale. More interested in the Kosei's than the Rivals.

[Kido1986]

I'd LOVE to move to STX, but I dont have the big money to do a competitive build. $2000 for exhaust and tune, $1900 for coilovers, $1000 for wheels, $500 for a light battery, $2000 for the lightweight brakes. That's not even close to a full build, just the 80% build, the bulk of the parts that make a difference.

You can skip some of it but I want to be competitive :/ At the end of 2014 I have to decide I love competitive autocrossing more or my BRZ because I have a feeling it will come to that.

[jprice130]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

I'd be interested if you do plan to move. Send me a message if you decide to put them up for sale. More interested in the Kosei's than the Rivals.

Sounds good sir. I'll keep you posted if I decide to put them up for sale.

[jprice130]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

I'd LOVE to move to STX, but I dont have the big money to do a competitive build. $2000 for exhaust and tune, $1900 for coilovers, $1000 for wheels, $500 for a light battery, $2000 for the lightweight brakes. That's not even close to a full build, just the 80% build, the bulk of the parts that make a difference.

You can skip some of it but I want to be competitive :/ At the end of 2014 I have to decide I love competitive autocrossing more or my BRZ because I have a feeling it will come to that.

I feel your pain Henry, the cost to be nationally competitive in STX is stiff. I was mostly joking when I brought it up. With that said, if I was looking to win local PAX battles with my FRS/BRZ, I'm positive that most of us could overcome the C-Street to STX PAX with 17x9 wheels and 245/40/17 tires alone. Doesn't mean we'd win STX, but we'd certainly be PAXing better than C-Street.

On the bright side, most of the National events near you in 2014 (and Lincoln) are Championship Tours, so you won't have to worry about PAX for those. For your local events, the C-Street PAX obviously won't get you too many FTP trophies, but if I remember correctly, your region wasn't using the RTR .975 multiplier anyway, so you'll be placing better with the .821 as opposed to the .834 you were getting.

Anyway, I still think it sucks too, but hopefully this will help you feel a little better about it!

[stevo874]

Originally Posted by jprice130

but to be fair, he upped his C-Mod PAX by quite a bit from 2013 (.910 to .922).

I'm pretty sure he has a C Prepared Mustang. and IMHO C Mod has needed a hit on pax for years now.

Anyways, my personal goal is still to try to trophy at nationals in CStreet next year after missing trophies in rtr by .047 this year.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by jprice130

I feel your pain Henry, the cost to be nationally competitive in STX is stiff. I was mostly joking when I brought it up. With that said, if I was looking to win local PAX battles with my FRS/BRZ, I'm positive that most of us could overcome the C-Street to STX PAX with 17x9 wheels and 245/40/17 tires alone. Doesn't mean we'd win STX, but we'd certainly be PAXing better than C-Street.

On the bright side, most of the National events near you in 2014 (and Lincoln) are Championship Tours, so you won't have to worry about PAX for those. For your local events, the C-Street PAX obviously won't get you too many FTP trophies, but if I remember correctly, your region wasn't using the RTR .975 multiplier anyway, so you'll be placing better with the .821 as opposed to the .834 you were getting.

Anyway, I still think it sucks too, but hopefully this will help you feel a little better about it!

Yeah, you're right about the STX locally (I raw time most of our local STX drivers except Gary Meredith and his nationally winning E36). Wheels, tires, header and tune would be more than enough locally. I've just become enamored with the idea of competing with the big dogs nationally.

ANd you're right. Ive been recalculating PAX in my head after each event and Im just now consistently in the top 10 so now I'll be going backwards in that haha.

Illl have to make a decision after Nationals as I plan to run Dixie, Atlanta (a Match tour :/) and Nationals. Then to figure out what to do. I wont be able to afford a new BRZ and the 15s will be coming out likely with more power. If they go into STX as well, the 13-14s will be dead. I really have to figure out what I enjoy more...

[Biggins]

To get away from the PAX discussion briefly, I had a few replacement/upgrade questions:

1. Does anyone have a suggestion for replacement wheel studs? I would assume ARP would be the option?

2. Is anyone using spacers to get closer to +42mm and where can you find them? Did you have them made, eBay, vendor?

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

it would make sense if they dropped the ST* classes entirely and went back to the old structure, but then a lot of ST people would probably be pissed?

I don't think so. ST classes were originally created for everyone in the world except for people already doing autox. We buy a car and put the stickiest tires and konis on it. Normal people buy a car and replace the exhaust, intake and springs. SCCA made a class for them.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by qoncept

I don't think so. ST classes were originally created for everyone in the world except for people already doing autox. We buy a car and put the stickiest tires and konis on it. Normal people buy a car and replace the exhaust, intake and springs. SCCA made a class for them.

That is how I got into it. A civic with coilovers, intake, exhaust and shiny wheels. It wouldn't have been very encouraging if they has just dumped me into SP. Granted, ST (STS at the time) wasn't a whole lot better.

[mpicher]

Originally Posted by Biggins

To get away from the PAX discussion briefly, I had a few replacement/upgrade questions:

1. Does anyone have a suggestion for replacement wheel studs? I would assume ARP would be the option?

2. Is anyone using spacers to get closer to +42mm and where can you find them? Did you have them made, eBay, vendor?

I put the longer ARP studs on and got some open ended Blox lugs. The studs in front were pretty easy to do... just align the hub and tap the studs out with a hammer. In the back though you have to take off the rear brakes & hub assembly.

I had a separate discussion somewhere on here about spacers. Most felt that the extra few mm's of track width wasn't enough to worry about.