Contacted "Scion Customer Experience" regarding DI Seal Issue

[Braces]

After all of this .... Toyota may just go back to mass producing appliances on wheels.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Braces

After all of this .... Toyota may just go back to mass producing appliances on wheels.

you mean the ones that have throttles that stick and cause people to crash and die?

As I said earlier...all cars have problems.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by jeebus

you mean the ones that have throttles that stick and cause people to crash and die?

As I said earlier...all cars have problems.

Nobody is debating you that all cars have problems (some worse than others) but, in my eyes, it's how the manufacturer responds to those problems is what can make a good car great or crappy.

So far, thumbs down to Toyobaru... they still have an opportunity to make it right. I hope they do.

[tech4pdx]

9500 or so miles on the 'ole FR-S (few thousand supercharged). I've avoided this malady by sprinkling Himalayan salts all around the car and calling upon the spirits of race cars from a bygone era to protect my DI seals. If they melt, the battle shall be lost but the war will be won. Onward men!!

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by AyJay

Nobody is debating you that all cars have problems (some worse than others) but, in my eyes, it's how the manufacturer responds to those problems is what can make a good car great or crappy.

So far, thumbs down to Toyobaru... they still have an opportunity to make it right. I hope they do.

I just don't know what they really have to go on? The number of owners that have had this particular issue is relatively low. Obviously not all owners that have had it are on this forum, but in reality we are probably talking about less than .5%. Sony had a higher percentage of DOA consoles at launch this week.

Now, if the numbers start escalating then they will be forced to take serious action on the matter. But you have to remember they are companies trying to make a profit on the vehicles they sell. They can't take every issue that comes along from a small minority of owners, and decide "hey, let's re-engineer the fuel system and replace all the ones on the road today". It just isn't a logical business decision.

I'll admit that I don't think this was the best engineered fuel system. At this point in time I wish Toyota had no part in the fuel system at all. From the chirping pumps to the failing seals to the added complexity and cost of a direct and port system, it really is a bit of a mess. If the twins survive more than a few years, I'd wager to bet Subaru will be using their own DI system at some point.

[feldy]

@CGS_Mike have you seen any of the di seals pop on a automatic?

[autobrz]

but turbos can run with port injection with much higher combustion chamber pressure why cant higher compression?

[ayau]

Kind of weird how they chose to respond to non-harming issues such as lamp condensation, chirping, creaks, etc, but there's still no response on the DI seals. Probably a percentage affected/complaining thing.

[7thgear]

maybe the solution requires a complete overhaul of the engine..

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

maybe the solution requires a complete overhaul of the engine..

Yeah, like additional water passages in the heads to keep the area around the direct injectors cooler.

If they have to redesign the head then no wonder they would not want to acknowledge an issue.

[smbstyle]

9 track days on the car, no signs of the issue (no popping, no CEL, etc.)

Weird thing is, we have a bunch of FRS/BRZ owners come to the track events on a regular basis down here in the Southeast, and none of them have had this issue or made mention of it, and all but one are on the stock tune. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know it exists. We all run on 93 octane BTW; I'll sometimes throw a splash of 98 octane if I'm in a hurry at the race pumps on site.

@Dave-ROR, do you know of anyone in the area that has had the issue?

Only issues I've had with mine are the auto-dim mirror mount being loose and the HPFP crickets, knock on wood. Build date 2/2013.

I'm not worried about it; with the small percentage of failures, I'll continue to track the car and enjoy the car. If it happens it happens, and I'll deal with it if that time comes. The longer the car is out there, the more time the OEM and aftermarket has to come up with a solution, and the easier it'll be to find spare motors!

[TeamZleep]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

9 track days on the car, no signs of the issue (no popping, no CEL, etc.)

Weird thing is, we have a bunch of FRS/BRZ owners come to the track events on a regular basis down here in the Southeast, and none of them have had this issue or made mention of it, and all but one are on the stock tune. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know it exists. We all run on 93 octane BTW; I'll sometimes throw a splash of 98 octane if I'm in a hurry at the race pumps on site.

@Dave-ROR, do you know of anyone in the area that has had the issue?

Only issues I've had with mine are the auto-dim mirror mount being loose and the HPFP crickets, knock on wood. Build date 2/2013.

I'm not worried about it; with the small percentage of failures, I'll continue to track the car and enjoy the car. If it happens it happens, and I'll deal with it if that time comes. The longer the car is out there, the more time the OEM and aftermarket has to come up with a solution, and the easier it'll be to find spare motors!

That's 100% how I feel man.

[autobrz]

Just remembered track_warrior is from the same area I am. After looking at his car on the forum, it looks like he didn't have any cooling mods or tune but was running aftermarket test pipe, filter. Here we do have 93 octane.

[imom]

Originally Posted by ayau

Kind of weird how they chose to respond to non-harming issues such as lamp condensation, chirping, creaks, etc, but there's still no response on the DI seals. Probably a percentage affected/complaining thing.

Have you seen the video of the seals replacement and how much work is involved? Unless it's a safety hazard where a company will be sued they are going to lose money. Unless it's an exploding gas tank or something cheap running change...I don't see any manufacturers stepping up and say hay lets lose money. It's not about doing the right thing... it's about making and selling a product.

Wonder if there are a lot of members on this forum knows about BMW HPFP problem? The mini coopers and several others had fuel pump problems and took years for them to admit to it... and higher volume cars than the 86 platform. This car is not 2 years yet

Would be cool if an aftermarket had a solution, until then don't drive the car so hard or get a different car for the track. Just don't hold your breathe for the manufacturer to fix a problem that will cost them at least $1K per car...basically that's what you're asking...admit to a problem and issue a TSB. Once it's a TSB... all the 86 cars in the US will be coming in to get their cars fix whether they have the problem or not.

It's not weird at all... fix a small creak or more glue to the tail lights is a cheap fix... DI seals fix for small group (I would love for them to fix it) own the problem and pay a lot to fix it.

So if small enough percentage where it doesn't come to safety, they will ignore it for the cars already sold or all of us drive like mad and burn up the seals and have engine failures where it cost them more to fix the seals problem instead of fixing an engine with an engine swap and such... just money and math.

I'm not for the manufacturers...just being realistic. The 2nd gear is an issue, but I'm not going to the dealer to have them fix it if aftermarket like Mitec and such will alleviate the problem. Only thing now is to hope for third party to make new DI injectors with better designs where the seals don't slide off or melt.

I hope this is the only real engine problems the FA20 has...if it is...then it's not so bad...just cost the owners some precious coin to fix.