"gah FRS/BRZ are so slow, if only they had like 50 more hp"

[Hanni_0176]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...o_rs_test.html

2010 Challenger SE
3.5L V6
3834 lbs
0-60 in 7.5
1/4 in 15.7

2010 Camaro RS
3.5L V6
3794 lbs
0-60 in 5.7
1/4 in 14.3

2010 Genesis Coupe
3.8L V6
3476 lbs
0-60 in 5.4
1/4 in 14.2

2010 Mustang
3.7L V6
3464 lbs
0-60 in 5.1
1/4 in 13.7

2013 FRS/BRZ
2.0L H4
2758 lbs
0-60 in 6.6
1/4 in 14.9

Of course, that's if you're trying to put the FRS/BRZ in a V6 class because of price. It's not really fair to compare a small four cylinder to big sixes, especially considering how nasty the FRS/BRZ would be with a 3.0L H6... but whatever. At any rate,

The Challenger SE is slower all around.

The Camaro is less than 1 second faster in the 0-60, which isn't even that big of a difference unless you're drag racing, and a half second faster in the 1/4 is what... 1 car length? Oooooo...

Most of the same for the Camaro applies to the Genesis. So the only real show stopper in that list is the V6 Mustang, which is nearly twice the displacement of the FRS/BRZ and pretty much built to boast good stat sheet numbers.

Don't forget that the FRS redlines in 2nd at 58 mph, which slows the 0-60 numbers down a bunch... raising the redline, lengthening the gears, or looking at 0-50 instead of 0-60 puts its time much closer to those cars. There is also the issue of our tires, but yea...

My point is, if you're looking to win a drag race, or want to win the biggest e-peen contest by having the best stat sheet, the FRS loses that battle. If you want to talk about actual real world street driving (and not racing), the differences in power for those other cars is so much less dramatic than everyone makes it out to be. The only one that has a big difference is the V6 Mustang... but our 0-60 and 1/4 times are pretty much identical to the 2005-2009 V6 Mustangs, so...

I will repeat the question I keep asking. Do the people who keep complaining actually own the car? And for those who own the car and keep complaining about the power... did you all come from V8's and/or FI cars, or what?

EDIT: Also, I'm not saying that our cars wouldn't benefit from more power. I'm all for adding power. One of the things I love about this car is the quickly growing aftermarket. I bought the car with intentions of modding it. However, I think the STOCK power is absolutely fine. Oh, and by the way, for those wishing they had some more oomph, I spent less than $600 on a K&N Air Filter and the OFT, and the car feels awesome. I'm sure the car is going to feel even more awesome next spring once I get lightweight wheels and better tires, a short throw shifter, and possibly the Electric Supercharger. Good times.

EDIT 2: If you have no intentions of modding the car AND you think the car needs more power...

a) why did you buy the car, and
b) you might want to consider trading your car in for the new 2015 Mustang.

[A&F]

Those cars are over 1,000lbs heavier, and are significantly larger.

Why buy a new car if you plan to void the warranty with a turbo kit. For 25-30k you can buy +300hp Porsches and C6 Corvettes all day long.

If you think 14 seconds in the quarter is drag race materal, I got news for you. Your moms Camry does that today.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by A&F

Let me guees. This was a HPDE with plenty of old guys taking out their toys for a spirited toss around the ol'track.

People lie, Number's don't. Several magazines posted track times comparing the FRS to the GTR, 911, Corvette, Camaro ect. The FRS is destroyed in actual lap times.

Magazine articles aren't really relevant to this conversation as my point is simply that a (handling only) modded FRS can wipe the floor with a stock version. We all know that the car is handicapped in many ways leaving the factory.


It's fun to drive. It has potential. Anyone that thinks 180whp is enough is either a horrible driver or has never driven a "fast car".

Jon Miller broke the track record for TTD (122:5) twice in one weekend with a 121:9 on Sat then a 120:2 on Sun. His car ran an E85 tune which probably yields about 180 whp maybe a little more.

On any given weekend HPDE at this track only a handful of cars out of a hundred are sub 1:20. Lot's of "decent" drivers bring "more than decent" performance cars out for years and don't come close to a 1:20. This particular course slightly favors high power cars while many others are more technical and would wipe the HP advantage away.

The point is that this car with minimal or no power adders but well prepped otherwise will compete fine with cars that kill the twins in stock form. Doing so certainly requires driver skill to exploit the corners in order to offset the horrible acceleration.... but it can be done.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lR21WeZ_II"]Jon Miller: Scion FR-S, Roebling Road NASA TTD Track Record - YouTube[/ame]

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Monogram

There is no such thing as a widget that will give you 50 horsepower without the costs you mentioned. Your argument is moot.

His point is not moot. He was just expressing that while the stock power is adequate, having MORE HP would still be desirable and useful.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Hanni_0176

The Camaro is less than 1 second faster in the 0-60, which isn't even that big of a difference unless you're drag racing, and a half second faster in the 1/4 is what... 1 car length?

0.6 seconds at 96mph is 84.5 ft. 6 FR-S car-lengths or 5.3 Camaro-lengths.

I don't think I've ever driven a quarter-mile at maximum acceleration on the street since I was maybe 18, though, so for me, on the street, irrelevant. But .6 seconds in the 1/4 is a significant difference.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Lots of things to be done before power that will let an FRS more than "compete" against more powerful cars on a typical road course. In one particular session this summer at Roebling, my car was "faster" than Viper GTS, E92 M3, SLK 55, E46 M3, R8 V10, C5 Z06, and lastly VW Golf R. Not faster than 2013 GTR but the GTR was being driven by Jonathan Sumerton and it took him a while to catch me as we worked through the before mentioned traffic. This car can be a track beast on stock power BUT I am adding more in increments that my wallet can support as quickly as possible!

This is not a good example or comparison. The cars you mentioned would demolish a FRS on most road courses. Many of these high dollar cars are babied or driven by people who can't drive or are scared to explore the limits.
My last trip to the track I was hitting 122 on the back straight.. I took a few laps in my friends C6 and hit 165 in the same stretch and it went in and out of turns MUCH faster than mine.. While the FRS is very capable in turns and all.. It's not in the same league against those cars especially when they can drive!

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by A&F

Those cars are over 1,000lbs heavier, and are significantly larger.

Why buy a new car if you plan to void the warranty with a turbo kit. For 25-30k you can buy +300hp Porsches and C6 Corvettes all day long.

If you think 14 seconds in the quarter is drag race materal, I got news for you. Your moms Camry does that today.

Oh hell....camry doesnt drift...fr-s does...if you dont drift your frs...it is not for you...anyways, the fr-s is different species.

You dont need to respect a camry to drive safe, but you need to respect an FRS if you want to drive safe. That is the point

[A&F]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

Oh hell....camry doesnt drift...fr-s does...if you dont drift your frs...it is not for you...anyways, the fr-s is different species.

You dont need to respect a camry to drive safe, but you need to respect an FRS if you want to drive safe. That is the point

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Monogram

Again, having more power always comes at a cost that to many is not desirable or useful. It comes at the cost of more wear and tear on an entire vehicle, additional up-front or maintenance cost, lower fuel mileage, additional time for maintenance, etc. More power is never free.

Hypothetically speaking, why in a daily driver/street commuter car is more power desirable and useful? Like many on this board I have had vehicles anywhere from 80ish horsepower up to 400hp (all street). Even at 80hp (Fiat), I could still merge onto the freeway at 70mph. I could pass when needed. I could pull every hill on the freeway at traffic speed. It was not anything fun to drive, but it did its job. 240Z was the most fun vehicle I have ever owned, and it was 200hp.... not as nice as the 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD F-Sport my wife currently owns, but more fun.

I could have swapped a small-block into the Z, but why?

The FR-S, for many, is the perfect combination of power, fuel economy, reliability, and turn-key fun.

More power doesn't necessarily demand more maintenance, time or wear and tear on a vehicle.. That's ridiculous.. I had corvettes before this car and they were easy to own and maintain. They didn't require anything more than this car does.. (Except fat tires) Less in fact.. And they were virtually bulletproof.. More so than this car especially engine wise.
Street driving doesn't require gobs of power.. Agreed. But having some power in reserve is a good thing.. Just because you have it, doesn't mean you have to use it all every time you drive..
For example.. In the vette, when I needed to pass or merge in traffic say doing 30 mph or so... I see a gap, I hit the gas and know I have instant and enough power to safely merge or pass. With this car.. You need to plan it out, downshift, wait for some power then hopefully you still have enough time to make it..
I love this car! It looks great, handles well and is go kart like in feel. I'm done with corvettes and high HP machines after owning many over the years..
That's not to say I don't miss the power or this car is inadequate.. But I have found myself handicapped a few times in the real world with its lack of power or the time it takes to build what power it has..
I love this car... But I'm not blind to its short comings ...

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Monogram

The FR-S, for many, is the perfect combination of power, fuel economy, reliability, and turn-key fun.

Well maybe when you actually own one and put some miles on it... You will have a more realistic viewpoint.. I'm not dissing you or the car.. Sometimes it just takes some time and real world experience to see for yourself..
Congrats on your future purchase..

[ciro]

As much as I agree an extra 50 hp would be nice I have found that selecting gears in most situations is more then enough to do anything. Freeway driving if you want to go fast and get out of the situation just drop it in to 3rd and gtfo. You can get to almost 90mph in very little time from 60-65mph. This car has good power for how light it is. If you want to feel that power more just take out the back seats, all the stuff in the trunk, and stop eating fast food you will notice a huge difference. If I remember correctly its something like for every 10 pounds you get rid of you feel 1 hp stronger. 100 pounds is easy to shed from this car with zero dollars accomplishing it.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Monogram

How do you know my "viewpoint"?

I've explained my viewpoint, and if you have a different viewpoint that is great! Track it, build it, whatever, but please do not pretend to know my "viewpoint".

I could have purchased a Prius, Corolla, 911, Vette, etc. but I have chosen to compromise with the FR-S because of the tradeoffs.

Oh relax.. Get over Yourself and your viewpoints..

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Monogram

...........
The FR-S, for many, is the perfect combination of power, fuel economy, reliability, and turn-key fun.

Well stated ..... at least for my driving desires .....

humfrz

[A&F]

Originally Posted by ciro

If I remember correctly its something like for every 10 pounds you get rid of you feel 1 hp stronger. 100 pounds is easy to shed from this car with zero dollars accomplishing it.

So you would have to drop 500lbs to "gain" 50hp.

Seems like adding 500cc or FI would be easier.