Contacted "Scion Customer Experience" regarding DI Seal Issue

[Prog]

If you expect results, stop emailing and start calling.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Prog

If you expect results, stop emailing and start calling.

That did nothing for us. I believe we got up to VP level.

[red_comet]

Paraphrasing Tyler Durden, here... "The cost of a settlement is A. The cost of a recall is B. The number of incidents is C.

If AxC<B, they don't do the recall."

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

the problem as i understand it is rapid throttle on/off above 5200 rpm..

Correct.

Change UP at 6000 rpm and the revs will drop to BELOW 5200 rpm in the next gear up. As I understand it, the problem occurs when reapplying throttle following completion of the shift; heavy detonation occurs if one shifts "rapidly," going back to wide open throttle in around 1/2 second, or less. (The whole business is somewhat confusing.)


My GUESS is that cumulative heat build-up occurs and reaches levels that melt the DI seals, which leads to further heat-inducing problems … and the engine suffers catastrophic failure. Most public roads do not offer sufficient "opportunity" for this to continuously recur as it does on a racetrack, which I suspect is one of the key elements. On the roads there will be more cool down time for most people on most roads. There are exceptions, of course. No doubt, one could go berserk on The Dragon.

This is just a reasoned guess, nothing more, since I have no idea what is actually happening.

What I find curious is that Toyota knows how to avoid this issue. Their GT86 racecars finished very well at the Nurburgring 24 Hours event. I don't think that would have been possible in a straight stock FR-S from the North American market. They know…



Or, I suppose it is possible that they needed to radically redo the whole "tune" for racing purposes, and fixed the problem without even realizing what they'd done. Who knows?


We can only speculate why Toyota/Subaru are "feigning ignorance." I suspect that money is at the root of it; it usually is.

If I had it to do over again, I would not buy this car. Despite that, I love the car and enjoy it immensely. The underlying worries somewhat temper my enjoyment, however. I'm thinking -- hoping! -- that I will never experience these problems. But there remains that nagging worry…

Reading about how Subaru responds to customers' blown engines is not reassuring. This is the first and it may be the last Subaru we ever buy. We'll see.

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by red_comet

Paraphrasing Tyler Durden, here... "The cost of a settlement is A. The cost of a recall is B. The number of incidents is C.

If AxC<B, they don't do the recall."

Jack said that...

Durden's the alter ego..

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

Jack said that...

Durden's the alter ego..

He was never Jack. Always Tyler. Nobody utters his name until the reveal.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

(i myself haven't noticed it,

Me, either. I can't hear any detonation under full throttle acceleration, because it's too noisy. And/or my ears are too old.

i have an early production

Me, too. Our BRZ came off the truck in June 2012, so it was one of the early builds.

but i mostly do autocross and my shifts are generally clean and throttle modulation is gentle)

There has, typically, been only a single shift to 2nd, and then it's all over in around one minute at an autocross event. Although, I wonder if the on/off throttle modulation creates the problem as well? Who knows?

[NickFRS]

Do you guys honestly ever go drive your car and stop complaining. You have no case and scion shouldn't give you anything or tell you anything for legal reasons obviously. Do you feel entitled to get a brand new different design engine since "some" owners have seen failure? If you buy a car to track it you should already expect the worst case scenario of totaling the car on the track due to poor driver input. You beat your car on the track. If something fails maybes it's the divers fault? In some cases it is faulty parts but it is a first year car. Just be thankful your throttle doesn't stick excelling you to 100+MPH into a brick wall.

-A pleased owner who has had loads of issues but still loves his fast fun shit box.

YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY BOYS.

P.s if it is a huge concern then i'm quite sure there will be a recall.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Note that it took Porsche over 10 years to bend to the owners will and compensate those that were screwed over.

Heh. Well, yeah, sort of... Porsche bent to the will of a JUDGE, who ruled against them and in favor of the plaintiffs in a class action lawsuit brought against them. And even then, if you're in the market for a used Porsche, you should read the terms of the settlement; Porsche is STILL not taking care of everyone. Ah well...

[Luna]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

. Just be thankful your throttle doesn't stick excelling you to 100+MPH into a brick wall.

LOL that's a low expectation

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

Do you guys honestly ever go drive your car and stop complaining. You have no case and scion shouldn't give you anything or tell you anything for legal reasons obviously. Do you feel entitled to get a brand new different design engine since "some" owners have seen failure? If you buy a car to track it you should already expect the worst case scenario of totaling the car on the track due to poor driver input. You beat your car on the track. If something fails maybes it's the divers fault? In some cases it is faulty parts but it is a first year car. Just be thankful your throttle doesn't stick excelling you to 100+MPH into a brick wall.

-A pleased owner who has had loads of issues but still loves his fast fun shit box.

YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY BOYS.

P.s if it is a huge concern then i'm quite sure there will be a recall.

I bet I've put more miles on FRS and BRZs than you have on your car.

Originally Posted by http://www.media.subaru.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=0?&id=190&mid=127

Quote:
With 2+2 seating and a folding rear seat,[B

there is sufficient cargo space to transport four race tires and tools to track days[/B].
Quote:
Seeking a pure sports car for road and track driving, Subaru followed a purist approach to engineering the 2013 BRZ.
Quote:
A standard Torsen® limited-slip differential helps the inside wheel maintain traction during hard cornering. For track driving, the standard Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) stability and traction control system (TCS) offers the driver five different settings, including a Sport mode and a TCS Off switch for track driving activities.
Quote:
Drivers who enjoy slalom or track events can also fold the rear seatback and have room for four wheels, a helmet and basic supplies and still have room for the front passenger.
Quote:
The five-mode driver-selectable Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) system and traction control system allows the driver the tailor the system to conditions and performance needs; stability and traction control can be disengaged for track driving events, for example.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by NickFRS

loves his fast

calling this car fast tells everyone what they need to know.

[NickFRS]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I bet I've put more miles on FRS and BRZs than you have on your car.

My car only has 10k stock miles 10k full exhaust + tuned miles and 2k innovate super charger miles. Currently have not been driving the car for 2 months chasing issues of the SC install. "Funny thing is i'm checking my D.I seals this weekend since i'm getting multiple misfire codes" Best part is I don't go running to the dealership since they hooned my car around the block and over a side walk to "see what the super charger does" after installing my replacement tail lights.

Not to mention i've been through 3 fuel pumps

Originally Posted by utekineir

calling this car fast tells everyone what they need to know.

You forgot fun shit box.

[Rampage]

So 100 cars out of about 40,000 sold have had problems and a high percentage of the 100 have been tracked. And you are surprised that Toyota is ignoring the outcry of less than 100 people?

The MR2 Spyder's 1ZZ engine suffered from pre-catalytic converter matrix failures. It happened on thousands of cars. Most of the failures resulted in eventual catastrophic failure of the engine. Toyota never admitted there was a problem and never took blame. However, later engines (2003-2005) are much less susceptible to the problem.

Toyota did replace some engines under warranty due to the failures. They also replaced pre-cats and plugged main cats.

Sound familiar? So why would anyone be surprised? This problem is much less prevalent than that one. Yes, there were hundreds of failures within the first year of production and these were almost all on purely street driven cars.

They did not build this car to be a race car. If thousands of solely street driven FR-S/BRZ start having injector seal failures then maybe, just maybe, they will do something.

Consumer Reports rating the twins as unreliable is more likely to get their attention than a few racers complaining about direct injector failures.