"gah FRS/BRZ are so slow, if only they had like 50 more hp"

[Brzetto]

Originally Posted by frs10

people who complain about the power are the following:

a) never drove the car before
b) compare the car to a way more powerful car
c) dont know how to drive

I'm going to add an option D. I'm totally convinced that racing games dilute a certain type of person's sense of reality, more so because they were crazy in the first place. They should go back to playing with their r/c bugatti veyron and keep dreaming about owning a real one.



people who complain about the power are the following:

a) never drove the car before
b) compare the car to a way more powerful car
c) don't know how to drive
d) play too many racing video games.

[strat61caster]

@Brzetto

I fail to see how your column D doesn't get folded into one of the other three. 'Oh this isn't as fast as the Mustang, has a crap power to weight' - column B, 'Skidpad doesn't look that great' - Column A.

I'm actually not sure how Column C works though, "I'm not a great driver, wish there was more power" doesn't make sense to me. Either they get blasted on the straights by others (column B) or the cornering isn't enjoyable in which case they simply bought the wrong car, kind of like buying a motorcycle and complaining about cargo space or wind noise (which I'm sure many do, the internet is a special place).

[nalc]

I think it's a little too much of a leap to go from "Straight line speed isn't a priority for me, and if I had to compromise somewhere on the car's performance to get something in my price range, I'd rather take a hit in power rather than handling" to "power is stupid, I wouldn't want it anyway".

I'm not saying the twins need more power (I'm pretty happy with stock power and rarely am in situations where I feel like I could actually use more power), but it's a stretch to say "Power is pointless, it's better to not have it". That's just being in denial. If Subaru offered a magic widget they could attach to your engine, and it gave you 50 horsepower, didn't affect warranty, didn't affect reliability, didn't affect fuel economy, and was free, every single person on this forum would get them. There's nobody out there who thinks 50 horsepower would make this car worse. There's plenty of people out there, myself included, who think that 50 horsepower wouldn't make this car that much better, and aren't willing to pay the price (I'm talking total lifecycle cost here, the cost of purchasing, installing, and maintaining those mods, as well as the maintenance and repair costs associated with running more power and not having a warranty, and the operating costs in terms of fuel economy impact) that 50 extra horsepower costs. I think you're deluding yourself if you claim otherwise.

[Braces]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Lots of things to be done before power that will let an FRS more than "compete" against more powerful cars on a typical road course. In one particular session this summer at Roebling, my car was "faster" than Viper GTS, E92 M3, SLK 55, E46 M3, R8 V10, C5 Z06, and lastly VW Golf R. Not faster than 2013 GTR but the GTR was being driven by Jonathan Sumerton and it took him a while to catch me as we worked through the before mentioned traffic. This car can be a track beast on stock power BUT I am adding more in increments that my wallet can support as quickly as possible!

I'm sure that driver ability has something to do with you being faster than those other cars.

[A&F]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Lots of things to be done before power that will let an FRS more than "compete" against more powerful cars on a typical road course. In one particular session this summer at Roebling, my car was "faster" than Viper GTS, E92 M3, SLK 55, E46 M3, R8 V10, C5 Z06, and lastly VW Golf R. Not faster than 2013 GTR but the GTR was being driven by Jonathan Sumerton and it took him a while to catch me as we worked through the before mentioned traffic. This car can be a track beast on stock power BUT I am adding more in increments that my wallet can support as quickly as possible!

Let me guees. This was a HPDE with plenty of old guys taking out their toys for a spirited toss around the ol'track.

People lie, Number's don't. Several magazines posted track times comparing the FRS to the GTR, 911, Corvette, Camaro ect. The FRS is destroyed in actual lap times.

It's fun to drive. It has potential. Anyone that thinks 180whp is enough is either a horrible driver or has never driven a "fast car".

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Lots of things to be done before power that will let an FRS more than "compete" against more powerful cars on a typical road course. In one particular session this summer at Roebling, my car was "faster" than Viper GTS, E92 M3, SLK 55, E46 M3, R8 V10, C5 Z06, and lastly VW Golf R. Not faster than 2013 GTR but the GTR was being driven by Jonathan Sumerton and it took him a while to catch me as we worked through the before mentioned traffic. This car can be a track beast on stock power BUT I am adding more in increments that my wallet can support as quickly as possible!

I don't care what you've done to your car - on stock power, there's no chance you'd be outrunning a well-driven C5 Z06, R8 V10, Viper GTS, or M3 if driving skill were equal. The Golf R is more believable though.

[bkblitzed]

lets not forget we lost against a v6 mustang xD

[A&F]

Originally Posted by Monogram

There is no such thing as a widget that will give you 50 horsepower without the costs you mentioned. Your argument is moot.

It's called a Turbo. The heavier, AWD Forester has the same 2.0 engine with a Turbo. It's rated a 23/28mpg for the same combined 25mpg the FRS gets.

The IS350 also weights 3,500lb with 306/277 and gets 18/29 for a combined 23mpg. This car also has wider, taller wheels.

[A&F]

The GC also has 273hp and weights 3,400lbs. It to is rated at 21/30 for a combined 24mpg. Once again, the GC also rides on wider wheels.

[Chad86]

Originally Posted by reardrv

All I'm saying is that when I hop into my '03 Ranger XL after driving the BRZ for a week and the Ranger feels punchy in comparison, that's not a good sign.

Don't tell me this is true...Try driving my 03 Celica GT and tell me if you find a difference compared to the BRZ!

[whaap]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Lol.. Don't make fun.. You too will be there one day...

LOL. Only if he's lucky!!

[NewR]

I love the BRZ but everytime I get behind the wheel, I do wish it had similar power to the S2000 which isn't fast by any mean but that thing just keeps pulling and pulling all the way to the red line... the BRZ just goes...blaaa...makes a lot of noise... and I am like.. is that all you've got...It is fun to drive though but just a little bit more would make it perfect.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I don't care what you've done to your car - on stock power, there's no chance you'd be outrunning a well-driven C5 Z06, R8 V10, Viper GTS, or M3 if driving skill were equal. The Golf R is more believable though.

Driver skill is rarely ever equall even within specific run groups, sometimes not even close.

Just for clarification, I am a huge fan of more power! That's why I have a 427 Vert in the garage rather than a Solara. For street use this car could definitely use a bunch more power to up the entertainment value.

However this thread is full of misguided comments from magazine enthusiasts who proclaim that the car can't be competitive on a road course without a serious bump in HP. The truth is really dependent on the course but more often than not, suspension, braking, cooling and tire upgrades yield far more improvement in lap times than pure power.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Driver skill is rarely ever equall even within specific run groups, sometimes not even close.

Oh, absolutely, and I suspect that was the reason that the 'Vettes/R8s/M3s/etc were slower.

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Just for clarification, I am a huge fan of more power! That's why I have a 427 Vert in the garage rather than a Solara. For street use this car could definitely use a bunch more power to up the entertainment value.

I bet that's fun when you step on the gas

Originally Posted by Deep Six

However this thread is full of misguided comments from magazine enthusiasts who proclaim that the car can't be competitive on a road course without a serious bump in HP. The truth is really dependent on the course but more often than not, suspension, braking, cooling and tire upgrades yield far more improvement in lap times than pure power.

All of those are important, yes, but in pretty much every area you mentioned, the cars listed above are already way ahead of the FR-S/BRZ. You can somewhat equalize that by upgrading the FR-S/BRZ of course, but short of stripping it out and making it a dedicated track car, it won't keep up with a well driven R8 or Z06 on good tires on the track.