How is this not an RX8?

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

But he mentioned that he wants all the amenities in the BRZ/FRS...so he was comparing to a loaded Mustang. What "most people" want is probably lower for both cars.

Exactly. Yeah, a base mustang V6 is about 23k out the door, and the base Scion is probably going to cost the same. But there is more standard stuff being offered, even on the Scion. Performance seats, good audio, every performance option standard. The V6 mustang, without the performance package, is extremely spartan...it's not very nice at all. Yeah it's quicker (NOT faster) but that's the only advantage it has in base form. In loaded form it's far more expensive and only marginally nicer inside.

Very few base mustangs are sold. It's difficult to find an example at dealers that's not optioned to the gills....that goes for V6 and V8 versions. I've shopped around for them a lot, as it's the car I was considering most other than the BRZ. To get the performance suspension, brembo brakes, performance tires, decent stereo, performance rear end, and the same interior options that come standard on the BRZ Limited, you're looking at 37k for the mustang GT and about 30k for the V6.

The V6 mustang is quicker than the BRZ, but it's actually not faster...it's limited to 118mph. One of the cost-cutting measures Ford used on the V6 mustang is a lower-spec drive shaft. If you take the limiter off the V6 Stang, the driveshaft will literally rip itself to pieces at anything over about 125mph. I have no doubt whatsoever that when a magazine does a comparison between equally priced V6 mustang and BRZ Limited, the BRZ will win every category other than interior room and acceleration.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Exactly. Yeah, a base mustang V6 is about 23k out the door, and the base Scion is probably going to cost the same. But there is more standard stuff being offered, even on the Scion. Performance seats, good audio, every performance option standard. The V6 mustang, without the performance package, is extremely spartan...it's not very nice at all. Yeah it's quicker (NOT faster) but that's the only advantage it has in base form. In loaded form it's far more expensive and only marginally nicer inside.

Very few base mustangs are sold. It's difficult to find an example at dealers that's not optioned to the gills....that goes for V6 and V8 versions. I've shopped around for them a lot, as it's the car I was considering most other than the BRZ. To get the performance suspension, brembo brakes, performance tires, decent stereo, performance rear end, and the same interior options that come standard on the BRZ Limited, you're looking at 37k for the mustang GT and about 30k for the V6.

The V6 mustang is quicker than the BRZ, but it's actually not faster...it's limited to 118mph. One of the cost-cutting measures Ford used on the V6 mustang is a lower-spec drive shaft. If you take the limiter off the V6 Stang, the driveshaft will literally rip itself to pieces at anything over about 125mph. I have no doubt whatsoever that when a magazine does a comparison between equally priced V6 mustang and BRZ Limited, the BRZ will win every category other than interior room and acceleration.

The V6 with the performance package is the only Mustang V6 I would ever even consider driving. I had a dealership out here agree to sell me one for 25.8 OTD back when I had a temporary bout of stupidity and was going to settle for the V6 instead of the V8. For 26K OTD, that is a pretty fun little package...if you can live with the chintzy interior.

As for a GT having the options that most people (I should have said enthusiasts) want, I was given a final OTD price of 32.5K
for a 5.0 with the 3.55 gears and some other random stuff). I don't care for stuff like HID's, and the spruced up interior trim and stereo bits. If you want all the goodies, you will get up to 38-39K pretty easily.

But this thread is about the RX-8 (a great handler that I wish had a bit more power), so I don't want to take away from it.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

The V6 with the performance package is the only Mustang V6 I would ever even consider driving. I had a dealership out here agree to sell me one for 25.8 OTD back when I had a temporary bout of stupidity and was going to settle for the V6 instead of the V8. For 26K OTD, that is a pretty fun little package...if you can live with the chintzy interior.

As for a GT having the options that most people (I should have said enthusiasts) want, I was given a final OTD price of 32.5K
for a 5.0 with the 3.55 gears and some other random stuff). I don't care for stuff like HID's, and the spruced up interior trim and stereo bits. If you want all the goodies, you will get up to 38-39K pretty easily.

But this thread is about the RX-8 (a great handler that I wish had a bit more power), so I don't want to take away from it.

Ah, but did you spring for the Brembo package, which also includes lighter, 19 inch wheels, a mechanical limited slip, different suspension tuning, different traction control and stability control tuning, and bigger/more coolers? The stuff that you'd want if you planned on tracking/autocrossing?

[Vasilis]

Hi guys just been reading thru the forums and I wanted to post something

I own an RX8 Type-S (6 speed manual, the claimed 247hp version straight from Japan) and it doesn't weigh as much as everyone is always stating.
I even saw someone stating over 3000lbs that is not correct.

Mine was weighed when registered and it's at 1310kg (2888lbs) and if you watch some BMI video with Tsuchiya they also mention the JDM RX8 at 1310kg.

That versus the 2756lbs (for the high spec - thats what googled told me ) of the GT86 you will see they're more equal than you think.

Also it does NOT get 12mpg - My worst MPG so far was 16mpg, 1 tank of gas only in the city + traffic and always spirited driving (redlining more than once per session, can't resist :P) - It's worth noting that there's a "sweet spot" for cruising that can give you up to 25mpg in highway (not great but not as bad as people say - it was my best mpg so far...) - If im not mistaken it's up to 68mph since above that it goes into the performance loop, drinking gas...

And I am at 61,000miles - Repairs ? Replaced clutch (didn't have any problems, just preventive maintenance since I got the car at a nice price) and coils...Apart from that regular servicing !

I am also considering the GT86 since I used to own a Toyota MR2 before the RX8 and I was always fond of Toyotas...

But you have to consider the fact you can buy a decent used RX8 and turbo it or supercharge it for much less than a new GT86...
I doubt the GT86 stock can hold a candle to a 300whp (or even 250whp) RX8 (I'm talking WHP not BHP). I am sure this is in the back of the mind of every RX8 owner out there considering the GT86...I know it's in mine

I do like the GT86 and its concept, I'm just not conviced its worth changing an RX8 for it... I'm guessing I can rebuild the engine, supercharge it too and still have a car that cost me half the price of a 197hp GT86...

Fun fact: I blown one motor on my Toyota MR2 at 50,000 miles which was babied from day one and never pushed that hard yet my RX8 is at 61,000 miles, redlined and pushed hard daily yet it didn't give me any trouble...Go figure

If you are comparing the supercharged or turbo RX8 to a GT86 there's no comparison...

Personally I'm very cautious on this matter and researching it because I do not want to spend a lot of money just to get a car that's more pseudo-reliable and gets 5mpg more...

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Hi guys just been reading thru the forums and I wanted to post something

I own an RX8 Type-S (6 speed manual, the claimed 247hp version straight from Japan) and it doesn't weigh as much as everyone is always stating.
I even saw someone stating over 3000lbs that is not correct.

Mine was weighed when registered and it's at 1310kg (2888lbs) and if you watch some BMI video with Tsuchiya they also mention the JDM RX8 at 1310kg.

That versus the 2756lbs (for the high spec - thats what googled told me ) of the GT86 you will see they're more equal than you think.

Also it does NOT get 12mpg - My worst MPG so far was 16mpg, 1 tank of gas only in the city + traffic and always spirited driving (redlining more than once per session, can't resist :P) - It's worth noting that there's a "sweet spot" for cruising that can give you up to 25mpg in highway (not great but not as bad as people say - it was my best mpg so far...) - If im not mistaken it's up to 68mph since above that it goes into the performance loop, drinking gas...

And I am at 61,000miles - Repairs ? Replaced clutch (didn't have any problems, just preventive maintenance since I got the car at a nice price) and coils...Apart from that regular servicing !

I am also considering the GT86 since I used to own a Toyota MR2 before the RX8 and I was always fond of Toyotas...

But you have to consider the fact you can buy a decent used RX8 and turbo it or supercharge it for much less than a new GT86...
I doubt the GT86 stock can hold a candle to a 300whp (or even 250whp) RX8 (I'm talking WHP not BHP). I am sure this is in the back of the mind of every RX8 owner out there considering the GT86...I know it's in mine

I do like the GT86 and its concept, I'm just not conviced its worth changing an RX8 for it... I'm guessing I can rebuild the engine, supercharge it too and still have a car that cost me half the price of a 197hp GT86...

Fun fact: I blown one motor on my Toyota MR2 at 50,000 miles which was babied from day one and never pushed that hard yet my RX8 is at 61,000 miles, redlined and pushed hard daily yet it didn't give me any trouble...Go figure

If you are comparing the supercharged or turbo RX8 to a GT86 there's no comparison...

Personally I'm very cautious on this matter and researching it because I do not want to spend a lot of money just to get a car that's more pseudo-reliable and gets 5mpg more...

I haven't seen weight figures that low for an RX-8, though it's possible if it's the JDM version - they have different crash standards. In the states they're all between 2950 and 3100 depending on trim.

And yeah, I know the JDM versions get better power and mileage...the emissions equipment on them is different than in the states. I suppose additional emissions equipment could be adding to the weight of the North American versions.

[Vasilis]

I think the weight savings come from the lack of navi system and the fact that I don't have the power seats...They're quite heavy If I remember correctly - Also I don't have a sunroof (I'm guessing that adds a few pounds?).

I wanted to also note that mine is a 2004 model (one of the early, that are considered problematic).

Anyway I really like the GT86, it was my goal to get one from the moment they announced it (before i got my rx8). However, considering the amount of cash I would need to give to get one which isn't an upgrade, makes you think

I would prefer better mileage and all that but it doesn't make sense to spend thousands of dollars (or euros in my case) for minimal savings on gas :P

Maybe when they enter the used car market

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Vasilis

I think the weight savings come from the lack of navi system and the fact that I don't have the power seats...They're quite heavy If I remember correctly - Also I don't have a sunroof (I'm guessing that adds a few pounds?).

I wanted to also note that mine is a 2004 model (one of the early, that are considered problematic).

Anyway I really like the GT86, it was my goal to get one from the moment they announced it (before i got my rx8). However, considering the amount of cash I would need to give to get one which isn't an upgrade, makes you think

I would prefer better mileage and all that but it doesn't make sense to spend thousands of dollars (or euros in my case) for minimal savings on gas :P

Maybe when they enter the used car market

Yeah honestly I agree. They're very comparable in terms of overall performance and intent (handling over power), so if you have the initial investment taken care of with the RX-8 and are comfortable with the different maintainance requirements of a rotary, there's really no reason to "upgrade" to a BRZ/FR-S/86 GT.

[Vasilis]

Or if you can't afford a new GT86 you can always get a cheap RX8

It's funny how everybody flames the lack of power/torque of the RX8 yet the general idea is that for the GT86 it's ok to be "slow".

I wonder why the RX8 never got the same appreciation of handling over power...
Hmm..Funny how marketting & advertising works

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Vasilis

It's funny how everybody flames the lack of power/torque of the RX8 yet the general idea is that for the GT86 it's ok to be "slow".

The impression I get is that it's the *same* people who flame the lack of power/torque in both cars, and then there are some of us who would rather have lighter weight even at the expense of big-time power/torque.

I wonder why the RX8 never got the same appreciation of handling over power...
Hmm..Funny how marketting & advertising works

A lot of people did and still DO appreciate handling over power in the RX-8 (and in the 240SX, E30 M3, 240Z, etc. etc.). But the meatheaded masses haven't and never will fully appreciate these cars.

That said, the RX-8 has other significant disadvantages vs. the FR-S/BRZ. Mainly fuel consumption, but also oil consumption and reliability concerns, which apply doubly to a used car going out of warranty.

The FR-S/BRZ should be more successful in the marketplace, as the compromises are more acceptable to more people.

Regarding marketing/advertising, I haven't seen a single ad for the FR-S/BRZ! People are and have been excited about this car for good reason.

[Vasilis]

I'm not saying you guys are against the RX8, I think the GT86 is in the same camp :P
Same idea really, focus on handling etc. etc.

The GT86 is going to get the same amount of hate by the mass of people. I just hope it won't hurt its sales... It does get good mpg, reliability remains to be seen ofcourse but then again it has reduced practicality/maybe performance is not as good as an RX8...

For the RX8 the mileage I will give you that, it's not very good and you can't really change that...On the other hand, if you supercharge it too 300hp or so you still retain the same mpg ( even some say you gain 1-2mpg lol) so in that case yeah, it's acceptable

The oil is getting old as an argument, it's been posted and proved many times that the oil consumption for a rotary is part of the design, doesn't cost much in the end (keep in mind you should use non-synthetic oil which is cheap), the quantity is acceptable for even an inline4 VTEC and not a real problem...

I agree that there's no warranty and so on but the car is pretty low cost at this point and my experience with parts is that they are not so expensive. Even a rebuild is not that expensive (even cheaper if you do it before something goes bad- I got an estimate of $2000 for a rebuild including labor + parts and it's good for more than 60k miles)

So way I see it is you can pay $10,000 for an RX8 and risk it that it will cost you more to fix it or you can pay the retail on a new car.

I don't know how much the GT86 will cost in the US but here in EU and especially in my country (Cyprus) the estimate is around $50,000 (USD)

I bought my used RX8 2 years ago for $9000 and you can find cheaper than that in the market (with more miles or with less features/less desirable colors etc.).


I like to change cars so I'm always looking for newer/better but now it's the first time I cannot find a reasonable replacement for the RX8. For me, the GT86/BRZ is the piston equivalent of the RX8 so naturally it attracts me

I am sure I'll miss the 9000rpm redline tho :P

[SUB-FT86]

It seems like some people like

Handling > Power

and

Power > Handling

But me I like an equal share of both

Power = Handling

[Guff]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

It seems like some people like

Handling > Power

and

Power < Handling

But me I like an equal share of both

Power = Handling

Hahahhahahahahahahha

Those are both the same thing....

[Lonewolf]

But the point is...everyday folks don't want to have to add oil or worry about flooding. People barely can be bothered to pump gas and fill-up their tires these days.

I loved the RX-8, but it was just too quirky for the masses (this equals poor sales and eventual termination)...which is a shame because it really was an enjoyable ride.

[7thgear]

i just showed a picture of an RX8 to my wife, she texted me back.

- nooo
- terrible terrible
- do not want

hahahah.