Subaru BRZ = Order only?

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

Hmmm, do you think they'll change the release date for the next version? Or mostly stick with springish?

what do you mean by next version? the mid cycle refresh?

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I doubt that they are purposely creating a low supply. I just think supply is low and the demand is high at the onset of the car being sold. Seriously give it 6-12 months and everything will be gravy.

+1

It makes no sense to have production capacity well above what will be sustainable in the future. Just like with most anticipated product releases I expect this car to be somewhat hard to come by at the onset. Within a few months you should be able to find a small handful sitting at dealers.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by brianbot5000

and if the soonest one could get a specific color/trim is late this year then there's a good chance that something else will come along in the meantime, resulting in a lost sale for Subaru.

Since nobody has a car like the BRZ/FRS under development (except Chevy) it's a very far stretch to believe that someone who can't buy one until 6 months after the release will have a number of other choices to select from. It takes *years* to develop a car and literally no one else has made a statement that they've even started, let alone shown a concept except for Chevy.

I'd expect some competition in 2 years or so IF the BRZ/FRS proves to be successful, but this is a car many will *not* like due to it's design (drivers car, lots of feedback, but loud, somewhat harsh/stiff, etc based on the reviews so far with little practicality, high fuel costs (premium octane and not the best fuel economy around, good for it's market, but it's not going to bring in sales solely because of it), probably higher than average insurance, etc.

In Mazda's eyes the MS3 competes with the car because of the price and the MS3 is a "compact sports car" (no point in getting into the discussion that a FWD car isn't a sports car). They have the Miata as well which more directly competes with this but of course it's not a new selection either. So Mazda won't be developing a car like this anytime soon.

Honda has the Civic Si and they are working at redesigning that after admitting the current model being an utter failure.

Nissan has blatantly said that they have no interest or intention of building a small sports car.

Mitsubishi I have no idea, I don't pay much attention to them.

Chevy may release the 130R which may compete since it's a small RWD coupe (but IIRC Chevy's initial info showed it to be severely underpowered compared to the BRZ/FRS and at a 25k pricepoint).

Hyundai has (and has had so it doesn't apply to this discussion either really since it's not a "new" choice) the GC, so they won't do anything else.

Ford will have the Focus ST but like the MS3 it's FWD and a hatch so it's better in some ways and worse in others.

Dodge has the Dart, but it's also FWD soo...

So anyways, if you really believe that another RWD compact sports car will be released by December than I think you are going to be very disappointed.

[Longhorn248]

If there was another RWD "affordable" sports car being released this year we would already know about it.

[tachi1247]

guess I was way off. subaru has 600 dealerships according to their site. that would mean 1-2 cars per dealer or more likely 3-4 for high volume dealers and 0 for others per month. another reason I will be waiting a while to buy. mark up will probably be crazy.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

Hmmm, do you think they'll change the release date for the next version? Or mostly stick with springish?

If you mean a mid generation facelift, I'd guess at whatever schedule Subaru/Scion normally release their model years. Only new introductions tend to be at funky schedules from what I've seen.

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

If you mean a mid generation facelift, I'd guess at whatever schedule Subaru/Scion normally release their model years. Only new introductions tend to be at funky schedules from what I've seen.

agreed.

kind of silly to even be talking about a refresh for a car that hasn't been released yet. if it happens its probably 5 years away and that is a big if. not all niche cars get face lifts. miata & corvette don't do refreshes. just new cars. or one 10 yr run and done in case of s2000

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

guess I was way off. subaru has 600 dealerships according to their site. that would mean 1-2 cars per dealer or more likely 3-4 for high volume dealers and 0 for others per month. another reason I will be waiting a while to buy. mark up will probably be crazy.

I've got my deposit in. If my dealership wants to try and do a big mark up for for early adopters then I just won't pay it. I might pay little bit of a mark up but nothing major. I'll just let them know they can refund my deposit, or keep it until they feel like they've sold enough of them to start charging a reasonable price. Living in Minnesota I don't think the demand here will be nearly as high given that it's RWD.

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by neutron256

I've got my deposit in. If my dealership wants to try and do a big mark up for for early adopters then I just won't pay it. I might pay little bit of a mark up but nothing major. I'll just let them know they can refund my deposit, or keep it until they feel like they've sold enough of them to start charging a reasonable price. Living in Minnesota I don't think the demand here will be nearly as high given that it's RWD.

Its going to be up to each dealership to decide what they want to do. If you have a deal worked out I would hope they honor it. I'm skeptical of the people who claim to have deposits to pay $500 over invoice for the first car the dealer gets. I hope they get their car but I wouldn't hold my breath.

The other thing to remember is production has probably already started and cars are being stock piled for launch. Hopefully we get a burst of cars at the beginning to satisfy initial demand. If not it may be a long wait for those that don't wat to pay sticker.

It took 6 months before the wrx was available on lots when it launched and it was even longer before my local dealership was willing to order one the way I wanted.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

agreed.

kind of silly to even be talking about a refresh for a car that hasn't been released yet. if it happens its probably 5 years away and that is a big if. not all niche cars get face lifts. miata & corvette don't do refreshes. just new cars. or one 10 yr run and done in case of s2000

The Miata gets a refresh every so often [NA 1.6, NA 1.8, NB, NB MSM, NC1, NC2, not to mention the proliferation of special editions], as does the Corvette, however it's more of a steady stream of subtle updates than big facelifts like what most bigger selling models get. The S2000's extremely long facelift ['04 til death] was unusual and IMO a big part of its decline. Honda was seen as giving up on it, and people don't get a warm fuzzy buying a car that's ignored by the brand.

With the AS1 allegedly having a 10 year model run, that's a really really long time in the current automotive climate. I'd expect two facelifts to keep it fresh and/or relevant; one in '17 and one in '20. That gives 4 model years for the current one, and 3 for each after. That's in-line with most, but they may bump up the first refresh if the car doesn't sell as well as they hoped during the first couple years.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

Its going to be up to each dealership to decide what they want to do. If you have a deal worked out I would hope they honor it. I'm skeptical of the people who claim to have deposits to pay $500 over invoice for the first car the dealer gets. I hope they get their car but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'll post pics of mine

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

The Miata gets a refresh every so often [NA 1.6, NA 1.8, NB, NB MSM, NC1, NC2, not to mention the proliferation of special editions], as does the Corvette, however it's more of a steady stream of subtle updates than big facelifts like what most bigger selling models get. The S2000's extremely long facelift ['04 til death] was unusual and IMO a big part of its decline. Honda was seen as giving up on it, and people don't get a warm fuzzy buying a car that's ignored by the brand.

With the AS1 allegedly having a 10 year model run, that's a really really long time in the current automotive climate. I'd expect two facelifts to keep it fresh and/or relevant; one in '17 and one in '20. That gives 4 model years for the current one, and 3 for each after. That's in-line with most, but they may bump up the first refresh if the car doesn't sell as well as they hoped during the first couple years.

I agree with all of this.

I would add the S2000 gained traction control and DBW in 06 and the CR later. Not refreshes really, but maybe worth noting as both were changes that people were overly emotional about

[tachi1247]

I believe you, but I just don't have that kind of trust in my local dealerships based on past experiences.

You have almost no recourse against them if they don't honor your deal as long as they give your money back. Just saying that when someone else comes in offering 2k over sticker the dealer may reconsider.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

I believe you, but I just don't have that kind of trust in my local dealerships based on past experiences.

You have almost no recourse against them if they don't honor your deal as long as they give your money back. Just saying that when someone else comes in offering 2k over sticker the dealer may reconsider.

I agree that the dealer could ultimately do what they want, that is why it is important to have the terms of the deal in writing and signed by Sales Manager and not a Sales Rep, as opposed to just having a verbal deal.

I have high expectations based on the fact that by having my deal in writing, my odds are pretty good that the dealer will honor it.