HPDE: Where, When and Who With?

[garfull]

I took orthojoe's advice and removed my coilovers went to stock shocks and swift springs to lower but keep as close to oem handling, upgraded the pads and brake fluid but I kept wheels as I never had stockers. My first time out I had the coilovers and the car drove like crap and was unpredictable. I did not have any fun. I went on a ride along with orthojoe and it was an eye opener at how capable the car is in its stock form. This last time out the car was so much easier to drive, I had so much fun, and I saw huge improvements.

[Doborder]

Originally Posted by PMok

Some great advice/experience shared by @orthojoe and @sw20kosh right there.

But to answer your question about the memberships - yes it could be worthwhile to join one of the clubs if it ends up being cheaper in the long run and you plan to run frequently with the same club. For example, with NCRC the membership cost is $40 / year. For NCRC members each track event is $10 cheaper than non-member prices so if you do more than 4 events per year then you're saving a little money (not much though). If you end up doing events with different groups and fewer than 4 in a year then no, not worth it. There may be other minor benefits from joining a membership depending on the organization (like perhaps preferred registration priority or getting the number you want etc.) but I don't think its anything that's a must-have. I only do about 4 events per year and I may hop between orgs so I haven't bothered to join up with NCRC. Maybe if I end up doing track days more often.

For NCRC, if you get the membership, It gives you access to covered parking at Thunderhill... That is worth the money during the hot summer months.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This.

At the same time let's not scare off those who just love tinkering and modifying their cars, enjoy driving said car around the track and who don't care all that much about lap times. Nothing wrong in showing up in your modified vehicle as long as the mods don't make your car unsafe for you or people around you.

There's absolutely there's nothing wrong with showing up in a modified vehicle. I did that exact thing my first time out. All the advice I'm dishing out comes from personal experience and from making the same mistakes. It's not intended to scare, but to clue people in on the realities of modifying. If it's for show, then fine. However, if it's for performance, reality and vendor claims can be drastically different. Particularly at the track. If your car is already modified, no big deal. If you want to get into tracking and think that you MUST modify before starting, then I've got a ton of experience that says you shouldn't.

When I upgraded the turbo on my old Evo, I gained around 40whp. Even though I had documented power gains on a dyno, I gained almost nothing in terminal velocity down the straights at the track and subsequently no drop in laps times. I eventually came to the conclusion that while the car made more power, it was only for a short time before heat came into play (the biggest enemy at the track), and my power levels dropped back down to stock turbo levels quickly. This was despite upgraded radiator, oil cooler, and tranny cooler. Net gain was zero.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

This is true and interesting because if you watch both of our videos I think your top speed at the end of the straight is higher than mine even though I have +65 whp. Part of it is my exiting speed onto the straight is lower than yours but still... I wonder if heat was a factor here.

That is VERY interesting. Thanks for sharing that info! With +65whp, I really don't think a higher exit speed will make up for that. I'll bet you heat is a factor for you as well. I'm sure your car pulls much faster than stock on the street, but do you feel the same amount of pull on the track? That was the case with my Evo. On the street, it pulled like crazy. On the track, I felt maybe a little more grunt coming out of a corner, but going down the main straights it didn't feel any faster. I've got some datalogs from a tuned GTR vs a stock GTR that show both cars accelerating down the straight at the same rate even though the tuned GTR makes a lot more power. Food for thought....

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

To me the pull is just as strong on the track as it is on the street except maybe for the end of the main straight.

Maybe @BigFatFlip can give his feelings on how it pulls on the track compared to stock as I've been driving this thing supercharged for 6 months and am pretty used to the power. I don't remember what a stock pull feels like.

I looked at other straights on the track like the one between 4 and 5. In the full video of the session (haven't posted it yet) where I have a clean lap I am showing 105 mph max there. I see you at 97ish. Maybe you are right that on super long straights the heat soak kills power.

Agreed, first thing I noticed during my ride-along in your car is the nice pull out of the corners (compared to my stock set-up, which feels more like a slow 'build-up"). It was most evident at the short straights, ie 3-4, 4-5 and most noticeably going up hill on 6-7. I did notice a feeling of tapering-off during the pull on the long straight, as we crest over the start/finish line. Could be due to heat, as you guys mentioned, although I'd imagine that you would have the least problems at the long straights since you would have max airflow/cooling Can't remember how it did from lap-after-lap though...

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

Agreed, first thing I noticed during my ride-along in your car is the nice pull out of the corners (compared to my stock set-up, which feels more like a slow 'build-up"). It was most evident at the short straights, ie 3-4, 4-5 and most noticeably going up hill on 6-7. I did notice a feeling of tapering-off during the pull on the long straight, as we crest over the start/finish line. Could be due to heat, as you guys mentioned, although I'd imagine that you would have the least problems at the long straights since you would have max airflow/cooling Can't remember how it did from lap-after-lap though...

This is very interesting as well. This behavior is very similar to what I experienced with the Evo. The temps mostly climbed on the long straights, but would pull back during the turns. The up/down in temp and power would be similar lap after lap, but after each lap the tmax would climb higher than before until the car overheated completely. It is true that you are getting the most airflow and cooling during the long straights, but at the same time, the engine is generating the most heat during those scenarios. Take a look at the temps in this video of my evo at thill:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ViTF1ybixY"]Best lap yet at Thunderhill in the Evo X - YouTube[/ame]

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

It is true that you are getting the most airflow and cooling during the long straights, but at the same time, the engine is generating the most heat during those scenarios.

I agree, it sounds like the heat buildup at wot in the straights is much more than what the cooling system can keep up with compared to a modulated throttle in the shorter straights.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

the fustrating thing is my oil n coolant never get anywhere near overheating on track with the robi cooling system... must just be an overloaded IC causing high IATs = timing pull.

That IS weird lol. Unfortunately, its a lot easier to heat something up that cooling it down. Curious, does the innovate SC have the capability of having its own cooling system?

[BigFatFlip]

I love all this technical discussions, but back on topic lol. A buddy of mine twisted my arm (well, more like my wife's arm) to do one last trackday for the year. We'll be at T-hill on Dec. 14th with HOD (I know, pricey, but its his first time, plus I LOOOVE T-hill ). Would love it if any of you guys can join us!

[Noob4Life]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

I love all this technical discussions, but back on topic lol. A buddy of mine twisted my arm (well, more like my wife's arm) to do one last trackday for the year. We'll be at T-hill on Dec. 14th with HOD (I know, pricey, but its his first time, plus I LOOOVE T-hill ). Would love it if any of you guys can join us!

I'm hoping I can get my car track ready for next year lol, need a helmet and to change out all my fluids first before I go. Not sure what else is needed but hopefully I can make it out there with some 86 guys soon!

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by Noob4Life

I'm hoping I can get my car track ready for next year lol, need a helmet and to change out all my fluids first before I go. Not sure what else is needed but hopefully I can make it out there with some 86 guys soon!

Consider Project Mu Club Racer or 999 brake pads otherwise the car is good to go bone stock!!

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by Noob4Life

I'm hoping I can get my car track ready for next year lol, need a helmet and to change out all my fluids first before I go. Not sure what else is needed but hopefully I can make it out there with some 86 guys soon!

All you really need is a helmet (some groups even have rentals, if you really need it). I've done my first couple of trackdays with the car bone stock with nothing but a quick oil change, mostly for peace of mind. As RehabJeff mentioned, brake pads and a fluid flush is a good upgrade, but I personally was not going fast enough to cook my pads/boil my fluid since I was focusing on getting my lines right.

[Noob4Life]

Thanks guys, yeah I doubt I'll be going to fast but I'd rather be prepared ya know? Was planning on getting the cusco diff cover when I did the fluid changes as well. I know it may seem overkill for a first time racer but I want this car to last and I'd rather put money into mods not repairs.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Consider Project Mu Club Racer or 999 brake pads otherwise the car is good to go bone stock!!

I was pretty impressed with the Project Mu HC+800 which is what I've used on the single day I took the FR-S to a track and kept em in for street driving after. I was impressed because they didn't deeply groove/destroy my rotors like most other hybrid street/track pads I've used in other cars. Track fade resistance and pedal control was adequate tho not outstanding.

I would think these would be a better choice for a beginner than the Club Sport pads.