injectors and tuning?

[love 4 boost]

Hey guys I am really curious if anyone has come up with resolutions to the injector seal problem or if it's not a big deal? also if I boost mine what is a reliable injector company for these and will I have to change all 8? not sure if the di's fail at any certain psi or tq range? last is tuning, I know almost everyone is using ecutek but is there a reliable person or company to trust with a base map so the car can start and get me to a reputable tuner in my area? sorry for all the ongoing questions it's just things that have been making me consider a 2nd car to hook up and leave this 1 alone but I really want to play with it and make it as fast as it looks as all frs brz owners should be used to hearing lol. Thanks for all answers I get.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by love 4 boost

Hey guys I am really curious if anyone has come up with resolutions to the injector seal problem or if it's not a big deal? also if I boost mine what is a reliable injector company for these and will I have to change all 8? not sure if the di's fail at any certain psi or tq range? last is tuning, I know almost everyone is using ecutek but is there a reliable person or company to trust with a base map so the car can start and get me to a reputable tuner in my area? sorry for all the ongoing questions it's just things that have been making me consider a 2nd car to hook up and leave this 1 alone but I really want to play with it and make it as fast as it looks as all frs brz owners should be used to hearing lol. Thanks for all answers I get.

You don't need to change the direct injectors, only port ones. I have deatschwerks 900s and they're a bitch to tune for, but otherwise seem to work well enough. Is stock to something a bit smaller of I had it to do again. I wonder if ID makes injectors for our cars...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by love 4 boost

Hey guys I am really curious if anyone has come up with resolutions to the injector seal problem or if it's not a big deal? also if I boost mine what is a reliable injector company for these and will I have to change all 8? not sure if the di's fail at any certain psi or tq range? last is tuning, I know almost everyone is using ecutek but is there a reliable person or company to trust with a base map so the car can start and get me to a reputable tuner in my area? sorry for all the ongoing questions it's just things that have been making me consider a 2nd car to hook up and leave this 1 alone but I really want to play with it and make it as fast as it looks as all frs brz owners should be used to hearing lol. Thanks for all answers I get.

I've already seen a few cars have the DI injectors fail with the updated transient timing tables.

HOWEVER, all of these cars started with xxA00x ECUs, so it is unknown if latent damage eventually surfaced, or if the DI seals still failed on their own. One of the cars had only 1 track day before their tune with the updated tables, and two of the failures are on FI cars.

All of the cars that failed have tunes from different vendors/tuners on this board.

Originally Posted by jamesm

You don't need to change the direct injectors, only port ones. I have deatschwerks 900s and they're a bitch to tune for, but otherwise seem to work well enough. Is stock to something a bit smaller of I had it to do again. I wonder if ID makes injectors for our cars...

He's asking about the seals, on the injectors themselves.

[love 4 boost]

Originally Posted by jamesm

You don't need to change the direct injectors, only port ones. I have deatschwerks 900s and they're a bitch to tune for, but otherwise seem to work well enough. Is stock to something a bit smaller of I had it to do again. I wonder if ID makes injectors for our cars...

If id makes injectors for them that would be great, I deal with a couple guys that can get them for me at great prices, so I'd probably buy a back up set or 2 just incase any fail

[arghx7]

Here's something to consider. What is the rated cylinder pressure for these DI seals? Of course we'll never know that. But if they are blowing out from an n/a engine experiencing significant knock, they could potentially blow out from a turbo engine experiencing very little knock or even an n/a engine with a lot of spark advance from race fuel/E85.

Boost with no knock and retarded timing on pump gas could potentially be safer on the DI seals than n/a operation with a lot of spark advance on E85 or race fuel. We don't have the instrumentation to know for sure, but It is possible. If my peak cylinder pressure is found at 12 degrees ATDC on E85 with no turbo, you could have more peak cylinder pressure than when the peak is at 35 degrees due to slower combustion and spark retard. The reason for that is, by the time the combustion really gets going the piston has already descended down away from the mixture. The mixture is less compressed as it is combusting, so the peak pressure is lower.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

All of the cars that failed have tunes from different vendors/tuners on this board.

He's asking about the seals, on the injectors themselves.

As I said above: In my experience, peak cylinder pressure is very sensitive to spark advance and the location in crank angle degrees of peak pressure (combustion phasing). In some ways peak cylinder pressure in a non-knocking condition is more sensitive to spark advance than it is to boost. So when you put high octane fuel in there and get your torque increase from adding spark advance, you are stressing the hell out of everything from all that cylinder pressure.

I can think of one n/a DI engine rated for premium fuel. Going from 87 octane to 93 octane, the stock tune adds about 4 degrees of spark. That increases peak cylinder pressure by about 15% across the rpm range, with only a 3.5% increase in peak horsepower and a 1.5% increase in peak torque.

Ever notice how beefy diesel engines are? A turbo diesel runs way higher peak cylinder pressures than a turbo DI gas engine of under similar loads (brake mean effective pressure). Like 180bar for the diesel, 100-110bar for the gas.

[love 4 boost]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've already seen a few cars have the DI injectors fail with the updated transient timing tables.

HOWEVER, all of these cars started with xxA00x ECUs, so it is unknown if latent damage eventually surfaced, or if the DI seals still failed on their own. One of the cars had only 1 track day before their tune with the updated tables, and two of the failures are on FI cars.

All of the cars that failed have tunes from different vendors/tuners on this board.



He's asking about the seals, on the injectors themselves.

The thing that makes me nervous also is I heard if you do try to replace the di's then u have to buy all new rails and gaskets and they can cost quite the penny and I like doing things right not to have the worry but if something is that temperamental it makes u wonder how often things will have to be taken apart and checked

[mike the snake]

I bought the Full Blown Premium stage 1 turbo kit, and ordered the optional 1000cc injectors.

From reading, these are pretty big, and I am not going to be running E85.

I asked my tuner, and he seemed to think there's no problem, but I wonder if 1000cc's is going to be harder to tune than, say, 750cc.

I AM going for bigger power by also running WMI, so I know I'll be surpassing the capabilities of the stock injectors. This is why I ordered the bigger injectors. The only option when ordering on FB's site was the 1000cc injectors.

[love 4 boost]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

I bought the Full Blown Premium stage 1 turbo kit, and ordered the optional 1000cc injectors.

From reading, these are pretty big, and I am not going to be running E85.

I asked my tuner, and he seemed to think there's no problem, but I wonder if 1000cc's is going to be harder to tune than, say, 750cc.

I AM going for bigger power by also running WMI, so I know I'll be surpassing the capabilities of the stock injectors. This is why I ordered the bigger injectors. The only option when ordering on FB's site was the 1000cc injectors.

it's crazy to me because this is my 17th car and almost every car was a turbo build or v8 and a k swapped civic, but I work for a shop that builds Hondas mostly k swaps, and I'm so used to how well and easy they react to mods with so many tuners within spitting distance of me that I got overwhelmed with all the studying I've had to do since buying this car. I'd really like to boost this car and see the potential but the risk is more than I've ever dealt with and I am not used to that feeling. I love this car and don't want to go back to builds I've done but this fuel system really bothers me knowing that I'm dealing with a boxer motor which they don't have the best past with power before blowing and needing rebuilds and still unreliable then. I know boxer motors can be reliable with small mods but these fa20'sare a whole new animal lol sorry for blabbing haha.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by love 4 boost

it's crazy to me because this is my 17th car and almost every car was a turbo build or v8 and a k swapped civic, but I work for a shop that builds Hondas mostly k swaps, and I'm so used to how well and easy they react to mods with so many tuners within spitting distance of me that I got overwhelmed with all the studying I've had to do since buying this car. I'd really like to boost this car and see the potential but the risk is more than I've ever dealt with and I am not used to that feeling. I love this car and don't want to go back to builds I've done but this fuel system really bothers me knowing that I'm dealing with a boxer motor which they don't have the best past with power before blowing and needing rebuilds and still unreliable then. I know boxer motors can be reliable with small mods but these fa20'sare a whole new animal lol sorry for blabbing haha.

yeah but remember Honda has been making K series for over 10 years and say D series (excluding the old DOHC version) for 10 years before that. If you had a Civic Si in the 90s don't you think it was the same thing modding them back then? Plus they didn't really have the same level of internet support.