"Bumping" on track days?

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

So even with open passing, it's just on the straights? When I hear open passing, I think anytime anywhere.

Agree. That's what it's like with the clubs I run with. A lot of passing is done under braking and off line.

It's really odd to be 'open passing' only on straights.... really strange. So basically it's a drag race on all the straights and as soon as the braking zone comes up it's off limits? I fail to see how this method is 'better' than point by only on straights.

[rice_classic]

Metaphor came to mind.

At a children's swimming school, a child is asking why the instructor is throwing children into the deep end before teaching them how to swim and the instructor replies: "We're promoting floating awareness."

________________________

There's a breakdown in logic here regarding the point by. If the run group that requires a point-by (aka: an illustration of intention) has a risky situation when passing then logic would suggest that a run group where there is no illustration of intention would inherently have much greater risk.

The whole 'point' is about knowledge and trust.

The point-by allows me to have knowledge of the other driver's intentions but I don't have to "trust" that.

Without a point-by (open passing) I have neither knowledge nor trust of the driver's intention.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Metaphor came to mind.

At a children's swimming school, a child is asking why the instructor is throwing children into the deep end before teaching them how to swim and the instructor replies: "We're promoting floating awareness."

[bkblitzed]

being Laguna seca with a lot of straights, even the beginner class was all free to pass when ever in the straights. Granted, all beginner students had to have a mandatory instructor, and had to be given the okay by the instructor to go out on their own in the racetrack. Different clubs may do different things but this worked fairly well.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

being Laguna seca with a lot of straights, even the beginner class was all free to pass when ever in the straights. Granted, all beginner students had to have a mandatory instructor, and had to be given the okay by the instructor to go out on their own in the racetrack. Different clubs may do different things but this worked fairly well.

Laguna is also super wide... which works well with open passing on the straights.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by bkblitzed

being Laguna seca with a lot of straights, even the beginner class was all free to pass when ever in the straights. Granted, all beginner students had to have a mandatory instructor, and had to be given the okay by the instructor to go out on their own in the racetrack. Different clubs may do different things but this worked fairly well.

Yeah, but it was passing with point-by on the straights, right? That makes sense for any beginner group. Open passing means no point-by, which means that the drivers are aware and experienced enough to know what is happing all around them. They should also be comfortable driving off the line

I have a hard time understanding 'open passing' on straights only with no point-by that canu is referring to. It seems like pseudo open passing for newbs. I've never heard of a club with those types of rules. I don't see the point...?

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

I don't see the point...?

[7thgear]

experienced or not, when lapping, i would always point-by and i'm weary of groups that let people do whatever.

i want to be absolutely sure the driver ahead of me is aware of me is giving me a green flag to proceed.

for one thing you don't know if the driver made an error during the last 10 seconds and so you've caught up to him, maybe he's just scratching his balls and is going to be on your ass after you pass him.

what if the driver is aware of something coming up on the track that you've missed, you never know why they might be slowing down

lapping is not racing, no matter what the experience level i think a certain general regard for safety should be given to everyone precicely because it is lapping.

[solma]

Not to agree with canu 50, but most lapping event I did attend in Quebec run with a gentleman attitude, point by are nice/sugguest but not mandatory. And yes, passing are allowed only on some straight line on one predetermined side only to the responsability of the passing car, for most group level.

I think this is due to the small size of the track we mostly have here in Quebec. It simplify the track rules as a lot of people do not have a lot of experience and the car are so different in performance in the same group(you can have 90 golf mix with a brand new corvette). It minimize the risk of accident due to a bad move from someone with less experience.

But I agree that there nothing problematic with a point by correctly done, where a disagree with canu 50 is the responsability transfert he is doing to the driver in front of him, whatever is experience is, intermediated group level(in Quebec) can range from "I will not jump out of the car when its running" to "I know how to drive but do not have nothing to win at the end of the day", you have to ajust to other driver not the reverse.

Tracks are public, with multiple people with multiple level of experience, respect and using your head are the best tools you have for fun and pleasure during lapping. And I would not consider ASE lapping night as a good example of that, lot lot of agresive driver with shitty ride that have nothing to lose by trashing up there ride.

At least it is my opinion.

It piss me off when I see a driver that have enought money to buy/mod a car with big hp and thinks that now he is entitle to just push off other driver that are trying to learn and have fun under the "he should have not been in that group level bla bla bla".

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solma

Not to agree with canu 50, but most lapping event I did attend in Quebec run with a gentleman attitude, point by are nice/sugguest but not mandatory. And yes, passing are allowed only on some straight line on one predetermined side only to the responsability of the passing car, for most group level.

I think this is due to the small size of the track we mostly have here in Quebec. It simplify the track rules as a lot of people do not have a lot of experience and the car are so different in performance in the same group(you can have 90 golf mix with a brand new corvette). It minimize the risk of accident due to a bad move from someone with less experience.

But I agree that there nothing problematic with a point by correctly done, where a disagree with canu 50 is the responsability transfert he is doing to the driver in front of him, whatever is experience is, intermediated group level(in Quebec) can range from "I will not jump out of the car when its running" to "I know how to drive but do not have nothing to win at the end of the day", you have to ajust to other driver not the reverse.

Tracks are public, with multiple people with multiple level of experience, respect and using your head are the best tools you have for fun and pleasure during lapping. And I would not consider ASE lapping night as a good example of that, lot lot of agresive driver with shitty ride that have nothing to lose by trashing up there ride.

At least it is my opinion.

It piss me off when I see a driver that have enought money to buy/mod a car with big hp and thinks that now he is entitle to just push off other driver that are trying to learn and have fun under the "he should have not been in that group level bla bla bla".

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8"]Trackday Comedy - FLAT OUT - YouTube[/ame]

I think the time has come for a run of CSG "I drive flat out" shirts.

[canu_50]

lol this video made the internet what it is today..

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by solma

Not to agree with canu 50, but most lapping event I did attend in Quebec run with a gentleman attitude, point by are nice/sugguest but not mandatory. And yes, passing are allowed only on some straight line on one predetermined side only to the responsability of the passing car, for most group level.

Interesting. I've got to imagine that this type of format only encourages those stereotypical jackasses in high horsepower cars to pass everyone on the straights and then hold everyone up on the turns, and then pull away from everyone on the straights again...

[canu_50]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

Interesting. I've got to imagine that this type of format only encourages those stereotypical jackasses in high horsepower cars to pass everyone on the straights and then hold everyone up on the turns, and then pull away from everyone on the straights again...

No because the high horsepower car will lift during the straight and let the lower HP car go by. This is courtesy. If not we pull them in and talk to them.

and you guys are telling me that you are doing point by while turning then?? If not it comes to the same thing.. to the exception that we do not wait for the driver in front of us to tell us when to pass him on the straight.


Gives you an idea, this is in the instructor group during our monday night!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rjCxAFcw8us"]ASELC 30 sept 2013 - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

I spy a G2X.