Starting in 2nd Gear?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

These cars have awful clutches. If you think they are so good you need to get out more. Try a Ferrari if you want to experience what shifting ought to be like.

Heck, try a BMW, Alfa, SAAB even a Honda.

These twins have one of the worst factory clutch setups I've ever experienced in any car.

Adjusting the clutch pedal height helps a lot. The clutch is still bad though.

Have you driven a manual Ferrari? It's far, far harder to use the clutch in one than it is on a BRZ.

[ft_sjo]

Clutch is great. Drivers aren't.

[TruRace]

Do a little more research on how exactly a synchro works because you aren't really telling me anything right now. Skip shift is a common practice for gm vehicles for with a 6sp. They have been doing it for years.

[whaap]

Originally Posted by Suberman

These cars have awful clutches. If you think they are so good you need to get out more. Try a Ferrari if you want to experience what shifting ought to be like.

Heck, try a BMW, Alfa, SAAB even a Honda.

These twins have one of the worst factory clutch setups I've ever experienced in any car.

Adjusting the clutch pedal height helps a lot. The clutch is still bad though.

Right on. I started driving legally in 1950. Back then the average man only drove manuals and some of those didn't even have synchro. I've driven many manuals and sports cars with manuals over the years and, embarrassing to admit, my FR-S was the most difficult manual I ever had. It took me a lot longer than I care to admit to get to the point where I felt I had it mastered.

[Dake]

Originally Posted by Manic

I did admittedly slip the clutch longer than I would have in 1st, but only by a half second or so.

All the other discussions aside, this really is the important qualifier. You can do second gear starts, but by their nature they will require you to drag the clutch more to get a smooth roll and that's going to wear out your clutch.

Technique-wise, you are just doing yourself a disservice because you're putting off something you need to learn anyway. If you need to start on a hill, you won't want to do a second gear start and then you'll be struggling with first since you're not used to it.

Skip shifting is a handy technique and I regularly skip up 1st to 3rd and onwards - and you might find this smooths your transition out of first too. First up to 12-15 mph and then into third is easy. Coming down through the gears it's good to rev-match if you're going to skip and that's a different discussion. Skip-shifting Up isn't really a big deal with modern cars, and some like the new Corvette even require it unless you have the revs really high so as to maintain their fuel economy numbers.

Take heart though. I learned to drive on a stick and have owned more manuals than automatics and even I stalled the FR-S a couple of times when I first bought it. I chalked it up to having never owned a new stick before, but either way there's always a bit of a learning curve.

[Manic]

Thanks Dake, I appreciate the advice. I've decided to stick with launches in 1st. I'll definitely try your suggestion of skip shifting next time I go out.

A quick update, I definitely feel like I'm getting better. I think I kinda psyched myself out before when I first got this car, because I was so used to my maxima. Also, I've learned to give it a little bit more gas.

Prior, hearing the engine roar freaked me out and made me feel like I was doing something wrong or straining the engine. Then I realized that I thought this because my maxima never made sounds like that and rarely went over 3k on the tach. This made me always give it too little gas so it would either start lugging or stall out completely. Got some advice from a friend of mine who suggested, when in doubt, give more gas. Since then, shifting has been a lot smoother and I'm feeling more confident about starts.

Now I just need to get in some good practice time with hill starts because I don't think I'd enjoy driving in socal traffic if I wasn't 100% confident about hill starts on freeway ramps lol.

[totally]

It must be an individual thing. I too have driven manuals almost exclusively and on the first FRS test drive had the shifting down perfectly. Also test drove a Hyunda Genesis a couple of times and never did manage to get reliably smooth shifts.

That said, the gear box/shifter (whatever it is) does feel kind of fragile. Not a big problem and perhaps to be expected on an inexpensive car.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Have you driven a manual Ferrari? It's far, far harder to use the clutch in one than it is on a BRZ.

Yes, and no it isn't. Depends what you mean by "harder". I have stalled my BRZ the clutch is so poor. I did not stall the Ferrari, nor can I imagine doing so.

You must have a very different idea than I do about what makes a good clutch.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by TruRace

Do a little more research on how exactly a synchro works because you aren't really telling me anything right now. Skip shift is a common practice for gm vehicles for with a 6sp. They have been doing it for years.

Don't make me laugh. GM had to do that to beat the guzzler tax for the Corvette.

If you've driven one you'll realize the skip shift is disabled if you press the gas pedal more than a bit. This skip shift is purely for EPA urban fuel economy loop. Nobody actually drives a corvette like that.

Besides, the way GM had to set this skip shift up proves my point.

The only remaining question is do you even know what you're talking about? Wait a minute, you've answered that already.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

Clutch is great. Drivers aren't.

You are mistaken. In fact the reverse is true. The better the driver you are the more you realize just how bad this Subie clutch is.

Adjusting the clutch pedal downwards helps a lot.

As the clutch plate beds in things improve a bit.

The main issue is the pedal arc is just wrong. Secondarily, the clutch pedal action is just too light.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Manic

Thanks Dake, I appreciate the advice. I've decided to stick with launches in 1st. I'll definitely try your suggestion of skip shifting next time I go out.

A quick update, I definitely feel like I'm getting better. I think I kinda psyched myself out before when I first got this car, because I was so used to my maxima. Also, I've learned to give it a little bit more gas.

Prior, hearing the engine roar freaked me out and made me feel like I was doing something wrong or straining the engine. Then I realized that I thought this because my maxima never made sounds like that and rarely went over 3k on the tach. This made me always give it too little gas so it would either start lugging or stall out completely. Got some advice from a friend of mine who suggested, when in doubt, give more gas. Since then, shifting has been a lot smoother and I'm feeling more confident about starts.

Now I just need to get in some good practice time with hill starts because I don't think I'd enjoy driving in socal traffic if I wasn't 100% confident about hill starts on freeway ramps lol.

You've got the idea.

This little boxer is a short stroke engine tuned for high rpm performance. There's not much torque low down the rpm range.

Around town in stop and go traffic I use the 2-4000 rpm band quite a lot. Dull but efficient. This is when the clutch modulation can be challenging on this car. Persevere and by all means use a bit more throttle pedal as you let the clutch in, don't overdo it but do give the engine a fighting chance to get the car moving away from rest smoothly.

If the traffic lightens up I switch to using the 4,500 to 7,400 rpm band.....much nicer.

And to think I bought this car to save my license from points.....

[TruRace]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Don't make me laugh. GM had to do that to beat the guzzler tax for the Corvette.

If you've driven one you'll realize the skip shift is disabled if you press the gas pedal more than a bit. This skip shift is purely for EPA urban fuel economy loop. Nobody actually drives a corvette like that.

Besides, the way GM had to set this skip shift up proves my point.

The only remaining question is do you even know what you're talking about? Wait a minute, you've answered that already.

Yup i'm pretty sure I know what I am talking about. And yes I have driven one. It engages before about 40% throttle or so. Are you saying GM intentionally added this feature for EPA regulations knowing it can potentially harm their vehicles? Hmm...

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by jarviz

Try to get the car going without any gas first. You need to find the 'catch' point of the clutch and once you get that position memorized, it makes getting the car rolling that much easier.

follow wut jarviz said & u will be gold.

and yes don't be affraid to give it more gas then auto, that's where the fun is.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Yes, and no it isn't. Depends what you mean by "harder". I have stalled my BRZ the clutch is so poor. I did not stall the Ferrari, nor can I imagine doing so.

You must have a very different idea than I do about what makes a good clutch.

I honestly don't understand how you stalled the BRZ (and not the Ferrari). It (the BRZ) has one of the easiest to use clutches I've ever driven. The Ferrari I drove on the other hand (a 360, specifically) was pretty challenging. I didn't stall it, but it took a significant amount of concentration and effort with every start. Moreso than any other car I have ever driven.

(That having been said, the Ferrari did not by any stretch of the imagination have a bad clutch. Just a challenging one. I'm sure if I owned a Ferrari, I would get used to it, but sadly, that's out of the budget at the moment)