BRZ/FR-S vs 2015 Mustang

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Mustangs would be cool...if everyone on the block didn't have them.

Yeah your GT500 is cool, but the hairdresser down the street's V6 drop-top looks almost identical.

What do you think the perception of the twins will be in 5 years?

Exclusivity is a poor measure of choice, it is essentially prestige... of which cheap cars have little to offer.

Of course the gt500 and a base 'vert dont look the same even to an amateur. Then again a buyer doesnt order a gt500 for the looks.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by Jaylyons1

This is SOOOO disappointing!!!!! Only 200 pounds lighter. There goes my interest in the car.

Where do you see that? Do you own the mag? Just curious

If so dissapointing indeed. At least they lost weight though, unlike the c7... Great car but can't get over that it weighs more than a c6!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by chulooz

What do you think the perception of the twins will be in 5 years?

Exclusivity is a poor measure of choice, it is essentially prestige... of which cheap cars have little to offer.

Of course the gt500 and a base 'vert dont look the same even to an amateur. Then again a buyer doesnt order a gt500 for the looks.

Yes, but at least for half of the 2000s I was the only one in a WRX for many square miles. First 6 months of BRZ ownership were pretty light on seeing other cars and still is, but I know this is a popular car.


I could see 30 Mustangs any given day. They're just not cool to me, though I don't deny their value. I saw a GT500 vert with the top down...old white guy. Instantly knew he didn't buy that car to drive it, just to flaunt it.

[TruRace]

I don't really understand why everyone is so hung up on the weight of this thing. If ford is dropping 200lb (not sure if that is true), that puts the stang around 3,100lbs-ish. The 3.7 v6 makes 305hp... that's not bad at all. The stang already takes the frs around most (if not every) track and that's with a solid rear end. If the new stang is indeed going to have IRS, that is one hell of a bargain. And i'm not trying to be a mustang fan boy here, I didn't just buy an frs for on paper performance, but I mean come on. How do some of you sound? Compare the weight of the mustang to other cars making the same power. Then compare the price.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by TruRace

I don't really understand why everyone is so hung up on the weight of this thing. If ford is dropping 200lb (not sure if that is true), that puts the stang around 3,100lbs-ish. The 3.7 v6 makes 305hp... that's not bad at all. The stang already takes the frs around most (if not every) track and that's with a solid rear end. If the new stang is indeed going to have IRS, that is one hell of a bargain. And i'm not trying to be a mustang fan boy here, I didn't just buy an frs for on paper performance, but I mean come on. How do some of you sound? Compare the weight of the mustang to other cars making the same power. Then compare the price.

The point that's being made is that all things being equal 3100 lbs doesn't handle like 2700lbs.

The projected 200 lb reduction is nice, but sports cars should be lightweight, not just lighter than the last gen. On the other hand, it's easy and relatively cheap to get 305 hp in an '86. Where as to get a new Mustang down from 3100 lbs to 2700 would likely require an interior strip and probably more. It would be un-streetable.

With all this being said, it's not likely that a group that appreciates the handling dynamics and liveability of the lightweight '86 would be happy to hear that the new Mustang will be over 3100lbs.

[chulooz]

Why assume the mustang buyer cares as much about handling/feel as the twins buyer?

A diet is a diet, most enthusiasts appreciate the slimming even if its just 200lbs. The stang already proves it can carry its weight just fine on the track and no one is holding a stopwatch on the street (not that its any slower(v6 incl) there either). People who boo an american classic because of its weight dont understand the cars purpose, just like those people who boo a japanese coupe because of its acceleration.

[Miniata]

Originally Posted by TruRace

I don't really understand why everyone is so hung up on the weight of this thing. If ford is dropping 200lb (not sure if that is true), that puts the stang around 3,100lbs-ish. The 3.7 v6 makes 305hp... that's not bad at all. The stang already takes the frs around most (if not every) track and that's with a solid rear end. If the new stang is indeed going to have IRS, that is one hell of a bargain. And i'm not trying to be a mustang fan boy here, I didn't just buy an frs for on paper performance, but I mean come on. How do some of you sound? Compare the weight of the mustang to other cars making the same power. Then compare the price.

Not sure where you're getting your weight numbers at for the Mustang. The curb weight on my '08 Mustang GT was 3490 lbs, the curb weight on the current Mustang GT is around 125 lbs heavier than mine (depending on trim level). The curb weight on the current V6 is 3450-3500 lbs depending on trim level (the V6 with performance package to get decent handling is closer to 3500 lbs). 200 lbs off the current model puts it at around 3350-3400 lbs for the V6 and in the range of 3425 lbs for the GT. Definitely an improvement, but not as much as I'd like to see. The next Camaro and the Challenger replacement will surely be lighter than their current counterparts too.

[Jaylyons1]

Originally Posted by TruRace

I don't really understand why everyone is so hung up on the weight of this thing. If ford is dropping 200lb (not sure if that is true), that puts the stang around 3,100lbs-ish. The 3.7 v6 makes 305hp... that's not bad at all. The stang already takes the frs around most (if not every) track and that's with a solid rear end. If the new stang is indeed going to have IRS, that is one hell of a bargain. And i'm not trying to be a mustang fan boy here, I didn't just buy an frs for on paper performance, but I mean come on. How do some of you sound? Compare the weight of the mustang to other cars making the same power. Then compare the price.

The GT weighs in at 3618. Losing 200 pounds only drops it to ~3418. The current V6 weighs in at 3501 so it would be dropped to ~3301.

I love the strait line power of the GT. I would never buy a V6 since the V8 gets only about 2-3mpg less(real world, not EPA ratings). The big thing I care about is the way they drive. I drove the 2014 a week or so ago and I felt like I was driving an old buick. It's just too fat and 200 pounds is not a big enough difference to consider one. I'm mainly disappointed due to the initial comments from Ford stating they wanted to cut the weight down to around 3k for the V6 and 3100 for the V8. Yes it's faster than a twin, but its sloppy. I had a hard time getting it out of the parking lot (the dealer had them packed pretty tight). If the dimensions were smaller, it would be a different story me thinks.

[TruRace]

I am getting my numbers from wiki, but nevertheless we are talking about plus/minus 100-200. Ok. A 370z weighs in at around 3,200. Does the weight of the Z make it any less of a sports car?

Has anyone read the article yet?

[thill]

We don't need to understand the article to know the role weight plays on a sports car. You are right in that the power to weight ratio is quite impressive with the Mustang, but many of us were really hoping to see the Mustang get closer to 3000lbs with a turbo 4 cylinder. 200 pounds is good, but 400-600lbs would have been awesome. Probably enough to make me think twice buying one at some point. I don't want another big heavy sports car. Been there, done that. Yes, it will have gobs of power and it will use massive tires for grip, but it will still feel large and heavy.

That said, I like what I am seeing on the exterior. I will definitely want to take one for a spin, I hope it is a big improvement on the current model...

[TruRace]

A hyundai genesis 3.8 weighs 3433lbs. Is that still considered a sports car?

[SigmaHyperion]

Originally Posted by TruRace

A hyundai genesis 3.8 weighs 3433lbs. Is that still considered a sports car?

A Genesis is no less of a "sports car" at 3400lbs than a Smart ForTwo is somehow the epitome of a sports car because it's just 1700lbs.

Weight is not the be-all, end-all of a sports car. But, all else created equal, less weight IS always better. The Bugatti Veyron is an awesome sports car -- all 4,400lbs of it. It just would be even better if it went on a diet.

There are no definitive measurements for what "IS" a "sports car". Being "more of" or "less of" a sports car is a comparative statement; not an absolute one where crossing some magical weight threshold transforms a car into something else.

The 370Z is most certainly widely criticized for its weight. It doesn't mean it's not a "sports car" -- it's just a "sports car" with a little pudge around the middle is all. Its' porkiness was an issue even back when it was 350Z and 100lbs lighter -- not necessarily because it was heavy in an absolute sense (though it was), but primarily because it was made glaringly obvious just how much better it would be if Nissan had focused on things like weight and steering feel and objective and subjective handling measures like Mazda had done with it's competition (at the time) the RX-8 had. For the consumers that are likely to be sitting here on this Forum, the addition of "just a couple hundred pounds" may seem trivial to you, but it's like going to the Mustang forums and saying "Yeah, I know we were shooting for 500hp in the V8, but all we got was 450hp. Who cares? It's just 50hp. It's still fast".

No car is "perfect" -- at least not for everybody. The Mustang (and Z, and Genesis) could stand to lose a little more weight by the likes of the market discussing it here. I'm quite certain if you went to the Mustang forums, they would tell you that the FT86 needs some more power to make it "more of of a sportcar" to their market.

No one's doubting what the Mustang was at 3600lbs nor that it'll be better at 3350lbs. Just that it could have been even better if they would have hit their stated design goals of another couple hundred pounds.

[SUB-FT86]

To me a sports car doesn't have to be 2700 lbs, it can also be around 3000-3100 lbs(Cayman ex). When you put a torqueless motor in a 2700-2800 lb car it can still feel heavy in the straights. The feeling of sluggish acceleration feels heavy. All the 370z needs to lose is 200 lbs to be great for its power output.

[Whitigir]

Originally Posted by Jaylyons1

The GT weighs in at 3618. Losing 200 pounds only drops it to ~3418. The current V6 weighs in at 3501 so it would be dropped to ~3301.

I love the strait line power of the GT. I would never buy a V6 since the V8 gets only about 2-3mpg less(real world, not EPA ratings). The big thing I care about is the way they drive. I drove the 2014 a week or so ago and I felt like I was driving an old buick. It's just too fat and 200 pounds is not a big enough difference to consider one. I'm mainly disappointed due to the initial comments from Ford stating they wanted to cut the weight down to around 3k for the V6 and 3100 for the V8. Yes it's faster than a twin, but its sloppy. I had a hard time getting it out of the parking lot (the dealer had them packed pretty tight). If the dimensions were smaller, it would be a different story me thinks.

Try the new vette Stingray. You will be amazed