"gah FRS/BRZ are so slow, if only they had like 50 more hp"

[355rockit]

Keeping the rev range between 4000 - 4500 between shifts gives good power. Of course it is nothing like my Ferrari F355, but what is. I did a drive with a F430 and a 911 this weekend and it kept up in the twisties, but on the straights... not quite... even more so given I am trying to keep revs under 4500 between shifts until after break-in. I can't wait until I can do 6K RPM between shifts during spirited backroad driving (not constant 6K just during upshifts).

[BlueDubbinTDI]

lol at the supercharger "fixing" this car and how relevant that argument actually can be..... Ide get a supercharger tomorrow if I could. But I cant. However, the FRS is purely an awesome car anyway. A SC 1 day WILL happen. just not today.

[Deep Six]

Disclaimer: My point of view has nothing to do with freeway driving since this was not the environment that the twins were built to thrive in.

IMHO the stock tires and brakes are more the limiting factor for serious street driving. Improve these and the car is transformed. Coil overs and an alignment that suits your specific behavioral preferences up the ante even more. I have only gotten 2 track weekends in so far, the first stock other than RBF 600 and the next with mods. It was virtually a different car thanks to the modifications and 8 seconds faster on a 2 mile track.

My point is that these are great cars with a very large performance threshold that has nothing to do with additional output. Even cooling mods on a stock motor will help as I am sure from first hand experience that high oil temps 270+ cause the ECU to pull timing and or dump fuel. (18 seconds to get from 103 to 120)

Regardless however of my previous comments..... I still plan to go FI because more is always better!! Not every decent driver is satisfied with 200

[Shawnofthedead]

The whp is more than enough for me if its bothering you youngins' than pump it with e85 or 100 the fa20 loves both and gives you about 50 more. My words of wisdom learn to drive first lastly worry about power or you'll end up around a tree or light post.

[Hanni_0176]

The people on the blogs are obviously going to complain about this cars hp. It's the only negative thing about it. (Don't take this out of context because I understand it has quirks, such as our cricket problem, etc).

People who purchased a different car (or cannot afford to purchase a new car) tend to defend their choice... those Mustang and GenCoupe owners bashing the FR-S call the car slow. The FR-S owners bash the Mustangs and GenCoupes by calling them obese, horrible steering feedback, tons of body roll, whatever.

The fact is, there are many different types of markets based on many different types of consumer wants/needs. For some, that happens to be overweight cars with lots of horsepower and torque. For others, that happens to be a car that is lightweight and easy to toss around, at the expense of straight line power.

I love my FR-S and knew what I was getting before I got it. I had no expectations of smoking muscle cars at stop lights. I wanted a lightweight vehicle (under 2800 lbs) that offered good gas mileage and had great styling. What I ended up getting was even better than my initial wants/needs, which included rear wheel drive, low center of gravity, good weight distribution, and great aerodynamics.

The thing is, it's hard/pointless/impossible to change certain things about a car. I don't think a 3800 lb muscle car is going to be dropping down below 2800 lbs without pretty much rebuilding the car from scratch and only making the outside shell look like the original car. Likewise, things like aerodynamics and center of gravity are incredibly difficult to significantly alter. Even with a big wing, front lip, and rear diffuser... some cars still have bad aerodynamic shapes between hood, roof, etc.

On the other hand, it's pretty easy to make more power. Yes, it requires the aftermarket (obviously), but it's not as difficult in comparison. The sticker price on a 2013 Mustang GT (which is considered a fantastic bang for the buck performance wise) has 420 crank horsepower (I'm assuming roughly 360 whp) for $31,000 base msrp... so if you consider a base msrp of $24,500 for the FR-S, you're looking at $6,500 difference... and I'm pretty sure you can get the FR-S to 360 whp for that much. Obviously, the same amount of money spent on the Mustang is going to yield far more power... but at what point does excessive power become overkill for anything besides dedicated drag racing? Regardless, my point here is that it is easy to make power, and much harder to change other performance characteristics... so if the complaint is the lack of power with the FR-S vs the obesity of the Camaro SS, I'd rather take the lighter car and make it faster.

My 2 cents.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Rayme

The FR-S is the Ninja 250R of sports cars. Nobody is saying it's fast, just fun to drive.

This right here, and the person who learns to drive the wheels off the thing often ends up embarrassing the dumbass who only ever learned to twist the throttle. This is an awesome little car stock. I feel sorry for those who think it lacks something, because you will never be happy with it.

[Hanni_0176]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

This right here, and the person who learns to drive the wheels off the thing often ends up embarrassing the dumbass who only ever learned to twist the throttle. This is an awesome little car stock. I feel sorry for those who think it lacks something, because you will never be happy with it.

While I agree with everything else, I disagree with that last sentence. There are plenty of people that have gone FI and are very happy with it.

[Ocala FR-S]

I'm ready to sell this car and get a Mustang. Only $12K and 850 HP. Good weight so it feels planted to the road. Bigger wheels too!

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

This right here, and the person who learns to drive the wheels off the thing often ends up embarrassing the dumbass who only ever learned to twist the throttle. This is an awesome little car stock. I feel sorry for those who think it lacks something, because you will never be happy with it.

You must come from the bike world...

[Minhtyfresh]

This car inspires confidence in corners more than many other cars I've driven. And I've driven a lot of cars! Straight line g's, while nice to have, is certainly not as fun as cornering g's. To each their own!

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Most people that own this car never drive it in the hills, canyons and other places where the road twist and turns like a snake with its head cut off. They drive the car in towns and cities where driving is from one stop light to the next and the big excitement is blasting up the freeway on ramp once or twice a day or drifting around a cul-de-sac.

No wonder they cannot understand why cars like the FR-S, BRZ, MX-5, s2000 and MR-S can all be glorious to drive without more than 200WHP.

So spot on.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by Mach V Dan

I really, really like the Innovate supercharger setup because it addresses this exact issue. I don't think the car needs a 150 more horsepower. I just want a bit more grunt down low, and a constant-displacement supercharger delivers that.



I'm not saying this as a salesperson. It's just that what many of you were saying was exactly what I said about my own car, and the addition of the supercharger made the power delivery just about perfect for my taste.

--Dan
Mach V

You said "just about perfect".. Why?

[Vracer111]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

This right here, and the person who learns to drive the wheels off the thing often ends up embarrassing the dumbass who only ever learned to twist the throttle. This is an awesome little car stock. I feel sorry for those who think it lacks something, because you will never be happy with it.

The car does lack something stock, but it's not horsepower level, it's a good power delivery (one that's more linear in nature) and engine responsiveness under load from 2.5k-to-nearly 5k. It's not to say you can't boogie when needed with the stock engine delivery (keeping it above 5k rpm), but it's the one major thing that needs to be changed on it (well I would also say change out the stock rubber steering rack bushings for solid aluminum ones and a lighter weight flywheel for the much too slow stock downshifts...) Keeping it above 5k rpm really increases the oil temp above nominal awfully fast though...

Cliff notes:

To be perfect the stock FR-S needs the following:
- Revised engine characteristic from 2.5k rpm to almost 5k rpm for more linear power delivery
- Solid aluminum steering rack bushings
- lightweight flywheel to speed up the too slow downshifts (you have to add waiting time after pressing the clutch in when downshifting)...I'ts odd that my Tacoma can downshift faster than my FRS...

Note, no additional horsepower or torque or suspension changes are needed... those were nailed perfectly. It has no issues at all reaching and cornering at triple digit speeds on highway on-ramps...on the stock Primacy HPs.

I'm more than content with it's stock power level - but not thrilled with the delivery through the middle of its rpm range. My brothers '05 RS has better engine responsiveness with its 2.5L SOHC motor in a heavier car with less power output.

[akyp]

If our cars do have 250hp people will still be like 'they should have 300hp because cars X, Y and Z have 300hp'. You can't win these people.

We do live in a crazy era when hatchbacks have over 300hp and weigh over 1.5 tons.