Frs vs s2000

[ayau]

@CSG Mike, if for whatever reason your CR was totalled, which car would you get?

[thill]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

How can you tell which ecu you have?

You want to find a car with ECU flash of ZA1JA01C or greater. Cars built on/after January 2013 should have this ECU flash or greater. Mine was build in March and has it. If you are buying a used FT86 that was built prior to Jan 2013 you will most likely need to get a tune to correct this as, of this post, there is no corresponding TSB to allow Subaru/Toyota technicians to flash you to ZA1JA01C or greater. Yet.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Not so much. Since only the rear wheels accelerate the car, the difference between having 46% vs. 51% of the car's weight on them is significant. But *all* the tires are providing lateral grip in cornering. The AP1 will have a slight front grip advantage due to less weight per tire width, FR-S/BRZ will have a slight rear grip advantage for the same reason, but they're going to be quite close overall if we don't take into account the AP1's camber advantage.
AP2 would have an overall grip advantage from tires.
But stock vs. stock, higher-speed cornering advantage is likely with FR-S/BRZ due to less rear lift, vs. the non-CR S2000, anyway. Right?

Speaking of rear lift, I got bigtime wheelspin at trackout of turn 12 leading onto the front straight at NHMS last weekend in the monster RX-7 on the last lap of my time trial. At ~105mph. In 4th gear. NEED WING!
Cornerworkers thought there must have been oil on the track and closed it down for a bit...

It really depends on the specific corner. WSIR in particular was interesting, because the S2k actually comes out of T2 faster, but the BRZ corners faster everywhere else.

I'm comparing @ImperiousRex's turbo BRZ vs a S2k Challenge mod-class S2k, which are near analogous in terms of performance. Some more data points:

- My butt dyno says the BRZ is about 220whp, same as a S2k with TP, but with a slightly fatter powerband.
- Front straight and T9 entry Vmax is identical in both cars (129mph front, 127 T9)
- Both cars are big wing/front lips/splitter cars
- BRZ is faster through T1, 3, 5, 6, 7, and a hair faster through 9
- S2k is faster through T2, 4
- Cars are equal through T8
- Overall, the cars are SO close that I could overlay 3 laps from both cars when looking at data, and you'd think they're the same car.

Data from S2kC mod cars are from various S2ks I've driven over the years at WSIR, as well as data posted/collected.

Stock BRZ vs stock CR (tires/brake compounds equalized, but not size):

- BRZ sees about 122 mph in front straight, 126mph entering T9
- CR sees 128mph in front straight, 127mph entering T9
- Lap times: 1:38.0 BRZ vs 1:34.5 CR
- BRZ corners slower due to less power to the wheels overall, but accelerates faster from T5 to T9, where both cars are both WOT.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

@CSG Mike, if for whatever reason your CR was totalled, which car would you get?

Another S2k if insurance is paying for it. If I'm paying for it, then just a cheap late model beater.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by thill

You want to find a car with ECU flash of ZA1JA01C or greater. Cars built on/after January 2013 should have this ECU flash or greater. Mine was build in March and has it. If you are buying a used FT86 that was built prior to Jan 2013 you will most likely need to get a tune to correct this as, of this post, there is no corresponding TSB to allow Subaru/Toyota technicians to flash you to ZA1JA01C or greater. Yet.

As of writing this, I have a feeling that Subaru/Toyota won't aknowledge a TSB as this affects a very low percentage of cars, i.e., for the 0.5% population that tracks this car.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

How can you tell which ecu you have?

The dealer can tell you. I suppose you just have to ask nicely when they're slow, or ask them to get you the version number when you go in for a service.

The crossover date is roughly Feb 2013 production date, but I don't know for sure because my data set isn't large enough.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by thill

You want to find a car with ECU flash of ZA1JA01C or greater. Cars built on/after January 2013 should have this ECU flash or greater. Mine was build in March and has it. If you are buying a used FT86 that was built prior to Jan 2013 you will most likely need to get a tune to correct this as, of this post, there is no corresponding TSB to allow Subaru/Toyota technicians to flash you to ZA1JA01C or greater. Yet.

There probably never will be =\

[rice_classic]

I had bought the FRS with the intention of DD'ing it for a few years then making it a race car. I have subsequently changed my mind. I don't see myself (at this point in time) ever making the FRS a race car. Instead, I will be looking at racing an S2000 in the future and will enjoy the FRS as a DD for the foreseeable future.

I still think the FRS is a better daily but when it comes to track-only or a purpose built race car, the data doesn't lie. I have to choose the S2000.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Stock BRZ vs stock CR (tires/brake compounds equalized, but not size):

- Lap times: 1:28.0 BRZ vs 1:34.5 CR

BRZ 6.5secs faster? Is this a typo?

[thill]

Originally Posted by ayau

As of writing this, I have a feeling that Subaru/Toyota won't aknowledge a TSB as this affects a very low percentage of cars, i.e., for the 0.5% population that tracks this car.

Yeah, all you can hope for is another TSB for another issue that requires a reflash to a newer flash that contains the DI fix...

Otherwise you are looking at something like Ecutek which is around $1K for license and cable...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

BRZ 6.5secs faster? Is this a typo?

Oops. Should be 1:38!

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I want a 300... but I may be biased since I have a habit of driving low hp cars in a pack of high hp cars.

I own a F4i, but want something with less power so I can focus on technique

In regard to cars, you and I are of the same mindset. I live to run down high hp cars I have no busniess passing in "advanced" run groups with my 4-cyl cars.

In regard to bikes, selecting low hp bikes so you are forced to focus on improved technique to compete is different than saying one bike has an advantange because it's "easier to ride" for beginners.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by AyJay

In regard to cars, you and I are of the same mindset. I live to run down high hp cars I have no busniess passing in "advanced" run groups with my 4-cyl cars.

In regard to bikes, selecting low hp bikes so you are forced to focus on improved technique to compete is different than saying one bike has an advantange because it's "easier to ride" for beginners.

I'll admit, part of it is a slight fear of highsiding out of a corner with sticky tires on... although I don't know how much of a problem that is since I was always a complete wuss with the throttle.

My driving doesn't reflect my comfort level on a bike at all.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by thill

Yeah, all you can hope for is another TSB for another issue that requires a reflash to a newer flash that contains the DI fix...

Otherwise you are looking at something like Ecutek which is around $1K for license and cable...

Vishnu's OpenFlash Tablet seems legit for half the price ($495). I'd go there if I wasn't just sitting on my hands waiting for Toyota to handle their biz instead of shafting their early adopters. They started with, and approved upon ZA1JA01C as the base for their stock (no mods) map.

At this point I'm thinking I will have to eventually say f*ck this car and sell or f*ck this warranty and flash. I'm honestly on the fence right now.