Frs vs s2000

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont care what zdan thinks is important. what i do care about, is that when he has a point to make, he uses facts to support his claim and follows information where ever it leads him all without randomly changing the paradigm in order to shift the focus from his mistakes.

The fact you can sit there w/ a straight face and say he didn't once shift paradigms speaks volumes about the value of your interpretations. Thanks for sharing though.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

The fact you can sit there w/ a straight face and say he didn't once shift paradigms speaks volumes about the value of your interpretations. Thanks for sharing though.

id like you to find me where he says the s2000 is better than the frs. just find one post he made for me where he deflects what youre saying, or changes the qualifications for the discussion. i honestly didnt follow your talk too closely so id love to hear it.

[vhx1]

Here's how I see it... The solution? BRZ DD, S2k track rat

S2k:
Pros:
1. Better suspension by design: Multilink F/R, adjustable camber, caster, toe from the factory.
2. More fun to drive.
3. Reliability when driven hard on the track. F2xC engines are proven to be reliable.
4. Peak power output more than BRZ

Cons:
1. Softtop
2. Not very practical
3. Harder to find in pristine condition

BRZ:
Pros:
1. More spacious and practical. Much more viable as a DD
2. Fixed roof
3. modern safety standards
4. Comes with modern creature comforts ala navi, heated seats etc.

Cons:
1. Given Subaru's track record with poor factory tunes and engine reliability on the EJ25x series, engine reliability (when tracked/driven hard) is a serious concern. Let's hope they've got it right this time.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

The fact you can sit there w/ a straight face and say he didn't once shift paradigms speaks volumes about the value of your interpretations. Thanks for sharing though.

The fact that you can sit there with a straight face and use the word "paradigm" on a car forum speaks volumes about the value of your interpretations. Thanks for sharing though.

[vangisback]

Anaxilus really has his panties in a bunch trying to defend himself. Geez, just let it go. You have a chip on your shoulder or something. Perhaps you were bullied too much growing up or never really made it in life and feel the need to defend every aspect of your existence, even if it is defending some incorrect statements that you made on a frickin' car forum. Grow up, dude.

Show me where I can buy a brand new s2000 today for $37k or $40k. /your lame argument

On a side note, I went to check out the FRS at the dealership for the 3rd time and feel really tempted to trade in the s2k. I know that I will miss the 9000 rpm redline and top down experience, but the FRS just looks nice and the interior is so much bigger.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by chrisl

The fact that you can sit there with a straight face and use the word "paradigm" on a car forum speaks volumes about the value of your interpretations. Thanks for sharing though.

Haha, I know right! That's why it was a quote from FaToni.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by vangisback

Anaxilus really has his panties in a bunch trying to defend himself. Geez, just let it go. You have a chip on your shoulder or something. Perhaps you were bullied too much growing up or never really made it in life and feel the need to defend every aspect of your existence, even if it is defending some incorrect statements that you made on a frickin' car forum. Grow up, dude.

Haha, right. Thx Dr. Phil. No actually as someone w/ multiple degrees across science and humanities, including philosophy and law, and various automotive and ASE related formal training, I have a problem with narrow minded engineers trying to hijack an entire thread by lasering in a minor discrepancy totally unrelated to anything related to the core of the thread topic for various reasons (often personal) and bitching about it for pages. I've seen this sort of behavior on other technical forums by quite a few 'engineers' that only stare at graphing calculators all day and have no nuanced comprehension of semantics, contextual grammatical relationships or fundamental coprehension of deductive versus inductive logic. So yes, it's a pet peeve of mine which I would have been fine to let go if certain folk had approached any such discrepancy in a more humane and constructive tone to begin with. Rather than the typical forum 'Aha, I got you now forum fucker! moment.'

To be perfectly honest, if you think his point about 32/35/38/40K dollar car matters at all, I think that's pretty sad for you and the rest of us.

Show me where I can buy a brand new s2000 today for $37k or $40k. /your lame argument

Oh yeah, that's my argument. Right again Sparky. I see why his 'argument' would resonate with you.

So no, I don't care what you think about my **** size or whatever psychobabble suits you. Just don't miscontrue my public statements out of context and try to turn them into something they aren't (LIKE U ACTUALLY JUST DID). I won't let that stand. And if a couple grand is irrelevant to anything topical, better to let it die than beat the horse to death for 4-5 pages. Maybe I'm just crazy thinking like that. Sorry if that's beyond your comprehension.

[Captain Insano]

Wow this thread... a lot of action.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Wow this thread... a lot of action.

Unfortunately the wrong kind. Because whether and when the S2000 cost 32, 35, 38 or 40K will determine when the Mayan Apocalypse sets in.

[tpham18nm]

It seems like a lot of the opinions are subjective, and perhaps its best to just look at the specs when deciding which car is a better track car. Sense I own an s2000, its already understood that my car is 12 years old. Because of my s2000's age I would understand if a new and modern frs/brz would have equal or better feel at a reasonable price of around 25k, excluding fees. The difference between the frs and s2000 isn't that far apart, especially if you put stickier tires on the frs you may find that they are very similar. I believe that in order for Toyota and Subaru to make an affordable and fun RWD sports car some things needed to be compensated. Toyota and Subaru gave sport car enthusiasts a product that is simply a platform for great tuning, allowing the owner to mod as needed. When reading through the many posts about this comparison I see a repetition of opinions by both owners. They mostly revolve around stating that the frs is a great handing car, practical, and affordable.

Maybe s2000 owners are just defensive to find that perhaps s2000's no longer top dogs in their class, and making the argument that s2000s have 40 more horses, better feel, design, etc. But all in all, the frs is a very competitive car. Out of the box the s2000 may track better, but the frs is full of potential and its brand new with a warranty! If I were to replace my s2000, it would be with an frs.

When I test drove the FRS I completely ignored the fact that it had better "technology", Bluetooth etc. I don't need any of that. Just an engine, tires, a tranny and the road underneath. A drivers car is what it is, similar to the s2k, and possibly a new hype in the world of modern tuners. One thing I noticed was how quiet and smooth the frs is. It seems like a car that I could take on a twelve hour road trip, rest and than go for another cruise. Its a great car, very comfortable and passengers could recline the seat! When I drove my s2000 I have a horrible clutch buzz lol, wind noise because of my soft top, and every rail road I drive over makes my jaw drop.

S2000 Con: Road noise.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by tpham18nm

It seems like a lot of the opinions are subjective, and perhaps its best to just look at the specs when deciding which car is a better track car. Sense I own an s2000, its already understood that my car is 12 years old. Because of my s2000's age I would understand if a new and modern frs/brz would have equal or better feel at a reasonable price of around 25k, excluding fees. The difference between the frs and s2000 isn't that far apart, especially if you put stickier tires on the frs you may find that they are very similar. I believe that in order for Toyota and Subaru to make an affordable and fun RWD sports car some things needed to be compensated. Toyota and Subaru gave sport car enthusiasts a product that is simply a platform for great tuning, allowing the owner to mod as needed. When reading through the many posts about this comparison I see a repetition of opinions by both owners. They mostly revolve around stating that the frs is a great handing car, practical, and affordable.

Maybe s2000 owners are just defensive to find that perhaps s2000's no longer top dogs in their class, and making the argument that s2000s have 40 more horses, better feel, design, etc. But all in all, the frs is a very competitive car. Out of the box the s2000 may track better, but the frs is full of potential and its brand new with a warranty! If I were to replace my s2000, it would be with an frs.

When I test drove the FRS I completely ignored the fact that it had better "technology", Bluetooth etc. I don't need any of that. Just an engine, tires, a tranny and the road underneath. A drivers car is what it is, similar to the s2k, and possibly a new hype in the world of modern tuners. One thing I noticed was how quiet and smooth the frs is. It seems like a car that I could take on a twelve hour road trip, rest and than go for another cruise. Its a great car, very comfortable and passengers could recline the seat! When I drove my s2000 I have a horrible clutch buzz lol, wind noise because of my soft top, and every rail road I drive over makes my jaw drop.

S2000 Con: Road noise.

Thanks for that constructive post. To keep things topical, I'm curious where people feel the S2000 is built inherently better for the track by comparison.

I think Mike said at a certain point, the S2000 advantage becomes 'painfully obvious'. I'm curious if we remove the double wishbone set-up and the drivetrain/powertrain differences from the equation, where are the supposed S2000 technical advantages, if any?

[iLuveKetchup]

Technical advantages? Removing what you mentioned out of the equation, I can't think of anything other than the s2k has a reliable (near bulletproof) engine. Oh and the s2k is less prone to ice-mode braking.

[eindio]

Top gear track test times look it up what ever is faster by an independent adjudicater the stig wins and quit arguing

[ZDan]

The S2000's 49F/51R weight distribution is a decent advantage over the FR-S/BRZ's 54F/46R (both with driver and fuel). Should give the S2000 as much as a ~10% acceleration advantage out of lower-speed corners.