Is your car fast?

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by Figo

And thats why it has light weight, low center of gravity, and 215 "suck" rear tires.

SUCKKKKKKKK TIRESSSSSSSS

Originally Posted by Figo

I did not mean M3 is not a good car or a good race car. Its a better and faster car. Faster at straight line and at corner.

I hope someone can get my point. Nowadays cars focus on corner-speed, instead of corner-fun. So thats why 86 is such a good car. It is not a corner-speed car, its a corner-fun car, which is maverick. Speed does not always equals to fun.

I'm gonna start saying "maverick" instead of awesome.

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think. just take a look at that tire review that happened a couple months ago. the mustang and 1 series gained more time from a tire change despite the fact that they ended up with a less sticky tire after they swapped.

I believe they said the mustang and 1 series had the power to take advantage of the stickier tires whereas the brz did not fully utilize the tire because it lacks hp.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by muffinz

SUCKKKKKKKK TIRESSSSSSSS



I'm gonna start saying "maverick" instead of awesome.



I believe they said the mustang and 1 series had the power to take advantage of the stickier tires whereas the brz did not fully utilize the tire because it lacks hp.

so lets call it what it is and blame the lack of power. not the lack of tire.

[doggieboy09]

The WRX and MS3 have sport tires stock. 86 doesn't

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i get that but it doesnt change the facts. the comparison to the wrx and ms3 doesnt really hold weight in this topic since they didnt change tires at all. all that proves is changing tires makes cars faster. to use tires as an excuse for this car would be to give pretty much every other performance car an even bigger excuse. it shouldnt be a point in favor for the frs because getting faster on new rims and tires is ubiquitous in the car market.

You said "i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think", I provided proof that you are wrong. Nobody that is serious about tracking any car would put Primacy tires on it. It is not rocket science here, they are not meant for performance. As far as the WRX and Speed3, they were both tested using Dunlop Ultra High Performance rated summer tires. They most likely would have benefited the least from a tire swap. Now if you put Michellin Primacy tires on all three cars and ran the tests it would have been interesting

[thill]

Originally Posted by muffinz

I believe they said the mustang and 1 series had the power to take advantage of the stickier tires whereas the brz did not fully utilize the tire because it lacks hp.

Watch the whole video again. At the end, Motortrend does not recommend the Mustang with the upgraded tires because it is too much tire for the car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think. just take a look at that tire review that happened a couple months ago. the mustang and 1 series gained more time from a tire change despite the fact that they ended up with a less sticky tire after they swapped.

I wonder about that result too. I know when I autocrossed on stock tires, the rear end felt very loose under power. After switching to max performance summer tires, the rear end felt much more stable.

If I were to guess, the overall grip of the stock Prius tires is probably close to that of the max performance tires (within 0.02 g), but the transition to slip is much more abrupt. A pro-driver like Randy Pobst can hold the car at the edge of grip, so his times were only minimally affected, but his level of confidence in the tires was higher. His comments bear this out. Randy guessed the car was much faster on max performance summer tires even though the difference in laptimes was actually minimal.

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by thill

Watch the whole video again. At the end, Motortrend does not recommend the Mustang with the upgraded tires because it is too much tire for the car.

Wasn't that because of the live rear axle and sloppy suspension? I don't think it was related to power issues...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

You said "i dont think the prius tire holds the car back as much as this forum would like to think", I provided proof that you are wrong. Nobody that is serious about tracking any car would put Primacy tires on it. It is not rocket science here, they are not meant for performance. As far as the WRX and Speed3, they were both tested using Dunlop Ultra High Performance rated summer tires. They most likely would have benefited the least from a tire swap. Now if you put Michellin Primacy tires on all three cars and ran the tests it would have been interesting

you dont need to speculate or make a hypothetical argument regarding the difference in tires. there was already an actual test in which changing tires yielded the least gains in the frs compared to the 1 series and mustang. there is zero need for speculation. you are also omitting the fact that they changed width, height, compount, and rims in that test so even in the data you are using to construct your hypothesis, doesnt provide much if any evidence.

[thill]

Originally Posted by muffinz

Wasn't that because of the live rear axle and sloppy suspension? I don't think it was related to power issues...

Yes, I never said it was related to power...

[muffinz]

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, I never said it was related to power...

welp this is going nowhere.

I'm done. I do not find this to be MAVERICKKKKKKKK anymore.

[thill]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you dont need to speculate or make a hypothetical argument regarding the difference in tires. there was already an actual test in which changing tires yielded the least gains in the frs compared to the 1 series and mustang. there is zero need for speculation. you are also omitting the fact that they changed width, height, compount, and rims in that test so even in the data you are using to construct your hypothesis, doesnt provide much if any evidence.

The evidence is right there from the Road And Track link.. Did you not read it? There is a chart at the bottom of the article that has all the data collected for their test. Since you cannot seem to read here is the data for you using the same size tires (stock vs upgrade):


Primacy HP
Size: 215/45-17 87W
Lap Time: 1:29.3
Max Track Speed: 93.6mph
0-60: 6.6
Skidpad: .89g
Slalom: 67.8mph

Dunlop Star Spec:
Size: 215/45-17 87W
Lap Time: 127.0
Max Track Speed: 94mph
0-60: 6.5
Skidpad:.94g
Slalom: 70.2mph

Those are real and tangible differences. No hypothesis needed.

Here is their take:

Install the Dunlops on the stock wheels, and presto-bingo! We have a new winner. The FR-S dropped 2.3 sec. with a simple tire swap. And not only does the car maintain its wonderful balance, it's vastly improved. The FR-S' sharp steering is enhanced by the tires' grip, providing a dramatic increase in feedback—with the Dunlops' greater forgiveness at higher slip angles, you can literally turn the steering wheel more. The rear rotates more gently on turn-in and the suspension easily handles the added grip. This is the way the FR-S was meant to run! I'm surprised the engineering team didn't murder the bean counter who forced the low-rolling-resistance tires on them.

[thill]

Originally Posted by muffinz

welp this is going nowhere.

I'm done. I do not find this to be MAVERICKKKKKKKK anymore.

This is what I said:

If you watch the whole video they explain why on the Mustang. It is the suspension. The car is holding the tires back.

I don't know why you are confused..

[Ammonia]

In b4 "road and track is just a magazine"

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by thill

The evidence is right there from the Road And Track link.. Did you not read it? There is a chart at the bottom of the article that has all the data collected for their test. Since you cannot seem to read here is the data for you using the same size tires (stock vs upgrade):


Primacy HP
Size: 215/45-17 87W
Lap Time: 1:29.3
Max Track Speed: 93.6mph
0-60: 6.6
Skidpad: .89g
Slalom: 67.8mph

Dunlop Star Spec:
Size: 215/45-17 87W
Lap Time: 127.0
Max Track Speed: 94mph
0-60: 6.5
Skidpad:.94g
Slalom: 70.2mph

Those are real and tangible differences. No hypothesis needed.

Here is their take:

no. i am aware of that. but when you change the tires of other cars, the same thing happens. i just dont see how this is a point in relation to other cars. that happens for every car. what i am saying, is that when you do that same thing with other cars (lets say a mustang or bmw), the performance gain is smaller for the brz.