Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[Gardus@Supersprint]

Originally Posted by regal

You will have to prove that adding any header with a crap tune is worthwile, I just don't see it. The key to a header tune is adjusting the vvt and spark and fuel profiles to eliminate the torque dip which is there in the OEM calib in part to deal with the manifold cat. Thestock ECU does not "learn" new vvt profiles. It also can't reduce the egr savaging.

Unfortunately its best to save for a header and a well matched tune. I think of this as a package.

For the dip, yes, I agree.
For peak power there is a gain without a tune.
We've seen a 15 hp increase at 6000rpm and 11 hp of peak power with catless headers and HFC front pipe.
Then with a specific map made by a Ecutek master tuner here in Italy the car gained ad additional 9 hp of peak power, 218 hp against 198 stock.
The dip is gone obviously.

[Gary in NJ]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

it needs some epic thread tags to go along with it.

Oh boy, here we go...

[regal]

Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint

For the dip, yes, I agree.
For peak power there is a gain without a tune.
We've seen a 15 hp increase at 6000rpm and 11 hp of peak power with catless headers and HFC front pipe.
Then with a specific map made by a Ecutek master tuner here in Italy the car gained ad additional 9 hp of peak power, 218 hp against 198 stock.
The dip is gone obviously.

when you do the math those gains with out tune are probably below average. If the dyno reads 198hp stock, that basically correlates to crank hp. Crank HP gains are roughly 70% of whp gains. So you have a 5% peak increase over stock (11hp) Just not worth it to me. Especially when stock cars fluctuate +_5% on the dyno. Basically repeatability of the dyno.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

Link me stat.

Drift Office got to 195 whp on the HKS EL header on 92 oct.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1067502

They also hit 198 whp with the T1R header (again on 92).

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41352

[SlamHoggin69]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

This^

The header probably sat in a box for months at a time untouched while they threw wrx rally parts on a frs to mak a rally car (I still don't get that or why rwd rally cars are cool). Meanwhile the fanbois shout in unison "look at all the hardwork they are doing, and time they are taking doing R&D.

No... they are dragging their feet. This thread opened up on 6/19/2012. Taking out weekends and holidays that is roughly 380 work days. A header can be fabbed start to finish in about 4 hours and most shops average a 10 hour work day. That's time enough to design and fab 950 header revisions.

So no.. they are doing other things and not as focused as claimed.

Hold the phone. Where does testing factor into this equation? I work in R&D and there are so many steps between idea and final products. Tons of research to determine what changes to make, how will these change cost/quality, we aren't throwing darts blindfolded. We forgive you.

[Mobius357]

@Stevo22
FT-86 SpeedFactory's Initial tune Shows a good flat midrange
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=36

Drift-Office's tune looks better on the top end.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...67&postcount=1

Edit: DarkSunrise beat me to it but FT-86 SpeedFactory is a good comparison all the same.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by SlamHoggin69

Hold the phone. Where does testing factor into this equation? I work in R&D and there are so many steps between idea and final products. Tons of research to determine what changes to make, how will these changes cost/quality, we aren't throwing darts blindfolded. We forgive you.

Apparently the only design behind a header is welding up some tubes that fit.

If that's what some people apparently think (by reading the responses), I'm not sure why they waited for this header.

[immaculate]

Originally Posted by Andrew025

Apparently the only design behind a header is welding up some tubes that fit.

If that's what some people apparently think (by reading the responses), I'm not sure why they waited for this header.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by regal

when you do the math those gains with out tune are probably below average. If the dyno reads 198hp stock, that basically correlates to crank hp. Crank HP gains are roughly 70% of whp gains. So you have a 5% peak increase over stock (11hp) Just not worth it to me. Especially when stock cars fluctuate +_5% on the dyno. Basically repeatability of the dyno.

Those are MAHA crankshaft dyno numbers which uses a coast down test to measure actual drivetrain drag.

Good system.


As for what sorcery can be accomplished with different header designs it's a matter of where you want the power.

So once cams get developed it will be another 2 year wait for top-end headers...

[Mr.]

Intermission: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vevOWUe_x7Y"]Slow-motion bouncing boobs - Rachel Williams' bounces her fun bags in super slow-mo!! - YouTube[/ame]

I was wondering how HKS developed headers for the car so fast as well...

Thanks you guys for keeping me entertained.

[cuddefred]

^

The build quality looks good

[FR-Sizzle]

Originally Posted by Stevo22

Link me stat.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41525

This probably would of had better numbers if it had a better intake.

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by SlamHoggin69

Hold the phone. Where does testing factor into this equation? I work in R&D and there are so many steps between idea and final products. Tons of research to determine what changes to make, how will these change cost/quality, we aren't throwing darts blindfolded. We forgive you.

Hold my bear bro! No body here is doubting the amount of time spent on r&D buddy! You totally miss the point here, mainly because your cognitive dissonance refuses to accept the actual reality!
Look, the moment a business starts R&D (which evidently includes testing) will not give any (not now in a hundred years) product release dates. What is eve worse is the fact that "soon" "just around the corner" has been thrown around too many times and is pointing out to me that they have poor communication management. In this instance is coupled by poor work load management.

Ok, you have 10 project on the go? great, dont talk about release date in the R&D stage because as you and I know, things might go crazy sometimes.

they are taking their time =/= they are working hard.

I think they need more resources to be able to meet other people expectations. Also improve their communication management, the way they promote things. yeah, i understand we're not the only market they service, but god damn it...set your priorities right and communicate them, dont just let people waiting!

nek minute...give me my beer!

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by SlamHoggin69

Hold the phone. Where does testing factor into this equation? I work in R&D and there are so many steps between idea and final products. Tons of research to determine what changes to make, how will these change cost/quality, we aren't throwing darts blindfolded. We forgive you.

Originally Posted by Andrew025

Apparently the only design behind a header is welding up some tubes that fit.

If that's what some people apparently think (by reading the responses), I'm not sure why they waited for this header.

The response is mostly what Hawk said, but with a few other notes.

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

Hold my bear bro! No body here is doubting the amount of time spent on r&D buddy! You totally miss the point here, mainly because your cognitive dissonance refuses to accept the actual reality!
Look, the moment a business starts R&D (which evidently includes testing) will not give any (not now in a hundred years) product release dates. What is eve worse is the fact that "soon" "just around the corner" has been thrown around too many times and is pointing out to me that they have poor communication management. In this instance is coupled by poor work load management.

Ok, you have 10 project on the go? great, dont talk about release date in the R&D stage because as you and I know, things might go crazy sometimes.

they are taking their time =/= they are working hard.

I think they need more resources to be able to meet other people expectations. Also improve their communication management, the way they promote things. yeah, i understand we're not the only market they service, but god damn it...set your priorities right and communicate them, dont just let people waiting!

nek minute...give me my beer!

There is more than prototype creation that goes into product development. It is true that it is only one step, but I was just using the numbers to make a point. They may be working on it, but it's pretty low on their priority list as is shown by the time that it is taking for release.

I had to delete a lot of this because it started to get a bit ranty, but I keep an eye on this thread to see if this "legendary" header appears, and if it can live up to the hype. So far all i've seen is one dyno from their in-house tuner that spent months with the part to develop the best possible tune, using a 3" catless exhaust to get the highest possible dyno, that really wasn't that impressive.