Performance Frustration, what should I do?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Evasive Motorsports

For reference, the movie is "Love the Beast", it's on Netflix, kinda campy but worth watching.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKpX5phKTZE"]Love the Beast trailer - YouTube[/ame]

[regal]

Maybe he lives in flat western Texas? This just isn't the right car, either move to east Texas hill country or buy a muscle or pony car.

People think these FRZ's are all purpose but there are much better values out there if you drive straight roads.

My commute is full of dangerous hairpin turns and crazy twisty hills. So the FRS is perfect, but if I lived somewhere flat and straight this just isn't a good bargain.


Unless you compete in autocross or track there is little reason to buy this car if you live in flat parts of the country.

[2013GTRNate]

To the OP,

If you are not happy with this car or any car then you should sell it ASAP and move on. Life is far to short to be unhappy. I am not sure what you hoped to gain by coming onto an enthusiast forum for the specific car that you seem dislike so much. Most of us did not buy this car to drag race and came in knowing full well what that this car was about and not liking it to a straight-line sports car…

For me this was the coolest DD for under 30k… If you want a fast car then buy a GT-R. The history behind the twins is of a little white car that is low weight and low horsepower beating higher horsepower cars under very specific conditions, I.e. running down hill.

Good luck! I truly hope that you find a solution to your current predicament.

-Nate

[h4nh]

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

FONT="Comic Sans MS"

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

Comments?

Kill yourself.

[regal]

Originally Posted by 2013GTRNate

To the OP,

The history behind the twins is of a little white car that is low weight and low horsepower beating higher horsepower cars under very specific conditions, I.e. running down hill.

.

-Nate

Just a little more history, this car is not light weight. Every MR2 from the first to last gen weighed less than this car. This car weighs about as much as an S2k which at its time was criticized for being too heavy (and our cars have 50 less hp.)

As heavy as it is, its pretty graceful. But is not a tossable light car like an Elise, MRS, NA Miata or a few hundred cars made before 1990. However it has an amazing stiff chassis that does better on the highway than those cars.

Its a good small Gran Tourer with excellent balance and composure.

[2013GTRNate]

Originally Posted by regal

Just a little more history, this car is not light weight. Every MR2 from the first to last gen weighed less than this car. This car weighs about as much as an S2k which at its time was criticized for being too heavy (and our cars have 50 less hp.)

As heavy as it is, its pretty graceful. But is not a tossable light car like an Elise, MRS, NA Miata or a few hundred cars made before 1990. However it has an amazing stiff chassis that does better on the highway than those cars.

Its a good small Gran Tourer with excellent balance and composure.

I definitely see your point. But I would argue that compared to my GT-R this thing is like a feather… Also keep in mind that the BRZ/FRS are in a new era of safety standards and requirements that all of the cars that you have mentioned did not have to contend with.

Regardless though we all knew from almost every review both Positive and Negative that the Twins are underpowered.

I have owned two Miata NBs 2003 and a 1998 in the past 12 Months and I assure you stock for stock the Miata doesn't hold a candle to this platform in terms of what you get.

I absolutely understand that this car is not going to win a street race in most cases but that is not what I bought it to do.



-Nate

[regal]

Originally Posted by 2013GTRNate

.

I have owned two Miata NBs 2003 and a 1998 in the past 12 Months and I assure you stock for stock the Miata doesn't hold a candle to this platform in terms of what you get.

I absolutely understand that this car is not going to win a street race in most cases but that is not what I bought it to do.



-Nate

Oh agree, cars are just too heavy these days if you live in hill country. I waited on the FT-86 from the first concept. Thanks for mentioning the Miata I almost bought an old Miata to hold me over and agree this car offers a lot more than any Miata. The chassis is super stiff and the low cog is magic, its surprisingly very well mannered on an occasional long 12hr interstate road trip.

I do believe that the name change from FT-86 to GT-86 means something. The GT means it ended up a lot more Gran Tourish than I think they planned, originally the target was 2500 lbs. If they had hit that or raised the engine to matched the increased weight the car would have been a much more all-rounder.

But as it is I think once the honeymoon phase is over there are three groups who will be happy with these cars long term:

1. Those of us who live on hilly twisty roads who want more than a Miata
2. Those who autocross or track
3. Those who buy the $25k chassis as a building base ($10k in mods and this thing competes with anything under $75k.)

Just a guide and MHO but if don't fit into the above three categories you may want to re-think why you are choosing this car. As much as I love my FRS if I lived in Nebraska I would want that turbo Genesis and if I lived in Maine I'd want a WRX.

[Atropine]

@ the OP

1. Learn how to operate a clutch.

2. Spend $5k on a used 1000cc Sportsbike

3. Smoke anything not named "Bugatti".

4. Try not to die.

Use the correct tool for the job.

I don't take my 4 Runner to AutoX.
*and
I don't take my BRZ 4 Wheeling...

[2013GTRNate]

Originally Posted by regal

But as it is I think once the honeymoon phase is over there are three groups who will be happy with these cars long term:

1. Those of us who live on hilly twisty roads who want more than a Miata
2. Those who autocross or track
3. Those who buy the $25k chassis as a building base ($10k in mods and this thing competes with anything under $75k.)

Just a guide and MHO but if don't fit into the above three categories you may want to re-think why you are choosing this car. As much as I love my FRS if I lived in Nebraska I would want that turbo Genesis and if I lived in Maine I'd want a WRX.

It is funny that you say that because I love to Auto X and road race; I plan to take both of my cars to the Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca and see what I can do. After my warranty expires I will be at the decision point of doing a build on the BRZ or buying a newer platform but until then I plan on just enjoying it as a DD.

In terms of price though I could completely upgrade and tune an FRS/BRZ for the same price as changing my rotors, pads and tires on the GT-R. That said these really are a bargain low cost car. One thing that I have noticed is that many people pay extra money on cosmetics and then complain about the performance of the twins which gets a bit annoying. With a few well chosen upgrades you could change the dynamics astronomically.

But if you truly want a fast car for a great price buy a WRX, WRX STi, or an EVO VIII/IX/X…



-Nate

[MightyMeeple]

To the OP:
Some of the posts may seem a bit harsh, don't take them personally.

As you spend more time on our forums you will see that what you have posted, and all your frustrations have beef expressed by many others in many threads.

As for me, and the majority of members here, when I read your complaints I can't help,but conclude you simply don't get what this car/platform is all about. No offense, but really sounds like you need to buy a muscle car. As for me, when I test drove the car I completely feel in love with the balance, the steering and that stiff suspension. I'm 9 months into ownership now, and honestly look forward to each and every time I get to drive this car. My hope is that you are able to get back to this level of satisfaction either through mods, or a simple readjustment of your expectations for the car and what it was designed to be.

Good luck to you!

[whatsinaname]

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

The fact is, I can consider myself a proud owner of the very first car, with a front mounted Boxer engine, and RWD, that has the center of gravity lower than a Ferrari Italia, and now looks as gorgeous as an Aston Martin sportscar, but it still freaking super extremely slow, specially while in that nimble of power that happens in between 3k to 5k revs.
/snip

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

thanks for the advice, bro, I was expecting some mild improvements on weight reduction, just a little wide tires, and most impotently, by cutting weight on rotating mass; like the crank pulley and the driveshaft. but then I as love the design of the car, but I taught it was missing something to be perfect, so I ended up waisting too much on thing that would do nothing on my please to drive. I was not considering a turbo, or anything hardcore before, because I am not a street racer, I was when I was very young, but now, I just want to enjoy the car, so with that been said, I would be happy with 230 hp , and maybe 200 lbs of linear torque. I was never thinking on reach 300 horses on this car, and I used to believe that with the car weight and proportions, the performance would not be as bad as I do now

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

thats not right, I don't like muscle cars, I did not buy the car to the propose of street racing, but I was expecting a lot more agility from a car that had the Caymman as a benchmark on its development.

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

I agree with that, but today we have plenty of auto cars fun to drive, even ones that aren't sportscars, thanks to double clutch transmission technology. Prior to my first BRZ, I spent a year with a Mercedes C250 Sport, and it has a 1.8L turbo engine, connected to a 7 speed dual clutch trans, delivering over 220 lbs of torque before 2k revs. and I considered it more delightful to drive in sort conditions, such as gaining speed after cornering, or a simple overtake.

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

Thanks buddy, but there is something else I haven't mention so far on this post; the fact that cars to me are something very very special, I am very enthusiast about cars, but I am not one of those NASCAR type of Enthusiastic, and maybe not even an F1 type of guy anymore; my fascination by them comes from their design, their hereditary, their technology. As you mentioned, the Mazda 3speed.... I know it is a quick car, and is a bargain comparing to other cars with similar performance, but I would never buy one, just because it does not have any appeal to me, to my eyes, as I judge its design poor, so as its built quality, and not to mention engineeringly speaking, I don't respect them, and it not just because it is a FWD. I used to love the R7s, and for sure these are the last Mazda that gain my admiration and respect.

I have a feeling that, for the kind of things you have in mind and the comparisons you keep making, a lot more than $25k will need to be put on the table.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WhiteThenGreyBRZ

agree with you buddy, and I do love this car and its concept, I just feel it lacks just a little of torque to be perfect to me. I love its design, the proportions, the concept, I respect Subaru as a brand, I am a huge fan of Boxer engines, and that was it, just a bit of frustration when it comes to accelerating after cornering, or on a mere overtake, sometimes looks an eternity to overtake a truck on the highway, and I am not saying I am willing to race it

I noticed you drive an AT. Are you downshifting? And not just one gear, I mean really clicking that downshift paddle for all it's worth. If not, you're not driving the car properly.

This is a car that will force you to downshift all the way on the highway. You need to be hitting redline to get your 200 hp. I've seen so many people who think they understand this car, jump in, and then will try to overtake other cars at 3000 rpm in 5th on the highway.

Downshift to 4500+ rpm and wind the engine out to redline. The powerband on this car is 4500 --> 7400 rpm. It's plenty of power to overtake cars on the highway, but if you don't enjoy using that part of the RPM band, you might not have understood what this car was about when you purchased it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by regal

Oh agree, cars are just too heavy these days if you live in hill country. I waited on the FT-86 from the first concept. Thanks for mentioning the Miata I almost bought an old Miata to hold me over and agree this car offers a lot more than any Miata. The chassis is super stiff and the low cog is magic, its surprisingly very well mannered on an occasional long 12hr interstate road trip.

I do believe that the name change from FT-86 to GT-86 means something. The GT means it ended up a lot more Gran Tourish than I think they planned, originally the target was 2500 lbs. If they had hit that or raised the engine to matched the increased weight the car would have been a much more all-rounder.

But as it is I think once the honeymoon phase is over there are three groups who will be happy with these cars long term:

1. Those of us who live on hilly twisty roads who want more than a Miata
2. Those who autocross or track
3. Those who buy the $25k chassis as a building base ($10k in mods and this thing competes with anything under $75k.)

Just a guide and MHO but if don't fit into the above three categories you may want to re-think why you are choosing this car. As much as I love my FRS if I lived in Nebraska I would want that turbo Genesis and if I lived in Maine I'd want a WRX.

I live in the midwest. Not that many hilly roads, but we do have some fun twisty roads at least and lots of lakes. I don't autocross or track very much. I went in buying this car not planning on adding FI (I am still on the fence).

I owned a 2013 Genesis Coupe that I owned for about 13 months before I took the BRZ out for an extended test drive and the rest is history.

The BRZ is first and foremost a drivers car. The Genesis Coupe is not. You can sit in the BRZ/FR-S and then sit in a Gencoupe or Camaro, or Challenger and tell immediately which car is built around the driver. And you don't need a hill or twisty road to really get it, you can take a 25mph sharp turn at 50mph in this car without thinking twice. Do I sometimes miss the hp/tq advantage of the Genesis Coupe turbo? I would be a liar if I said no. The Gencoupe made peak torque around 2500rpm and could put you in your seat and you could feel it in your gut. But.. The heavier Gencoupe also had vague steering, a laggy throttle response (turbo), a terribly vague manual gearbox, and you feel like you are sitting much higher off the ground. You lose that go-kart like feel of the BRZ, and while the Gencoupe can take corners just fine, it is not nearly as confidence inspiring as the BRZ. The nannies in the Gencoupe also seem to kick on all the time, but it was also the type of car that was less predictable and stable as the BRZ...

Trade-offs for sure. I decided I was much happier owning a drivers car again and sacrificing horsepower and torque. Those things can also be fixed with the FT86 platform. With most other RWD sports coupes on the market it is much more difficult to fix that these cars are large and heavy, and lack the driver feedback and response the FT86 offers.

Some people just don't get it, and might not, until they drive one of these GT cars for an extended time and then sit back in the FT86 for an extended drive.