Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

In another thread we decided that Michael J. Fox does their welding and Stevie Wonder is in charge of Q.A.

Yes, there is a special place reserved for me in Hell. I've accepted it, but I know I won't be alone.

Then everyone comes to defend the Borla saying it produces the same numbers that other headers do, but looks like crap. There's actually a lot more to headers than just bending a few pipes and slapping a collector on it then calling it a day. It's all about the profit for them and how they can lower costs to create them in mass.

Some of the early collector research on JDL's end was very interesting. A lot of the early R&D Nameless did showed how many different revisions they did of shaping and sizing the pipes. Nameless and JDL while quite a bit more expensive, you're paying for researched products, tested and proven, revised even with issues like the skid plate rattling and flex joint rattling JDL saw (which they have gone back and fixed everything, and made sure early adopters were taken care of with new revisions). Nameless had their own set of issues with size and I'm sure most want a full OEM plug and play header with no shroud massacring. I am glad they found a solution and this header is going to impress everyone. Just knowing the Nameless guys, if this thing produced crap numbers, it wouldn't be sold.

So to those that say, "Oh this header is overpriced, it's the same thing as X, etc etc" you're wrong. Look at the big picture and see why it costs that much. Other companies I can't go find any intriguing R&D or any background on something like an HKS header. P&L and a few companies like that create a great product as well and interact with their customers.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by FR-Sizzle

This is exactly why I went with another brand. Its sickening/horrible business practices to keep giving false hope and shit ETA's. Either dont say anything at all or give an ETA that is reliable so people will know instead of someone just beating around the bush.

Its annoying when someone keeps posting 1 more week.. 1 more week... soon... 1 more month... for fucking 5 months. Just from that I am sure they lost a ton of business. They should give an ETA and stick to it. I dont care if its because they want the best possible header. How hard is it to give an ETA that you add maybe a couple weeks or 1-2 months on top of it and let people know it can be earlier than that to give you some wiggle room in case anything goes wrong. If everything goes as planned you release early and announce it and people will be even more excited. Jason continuing to keep giving false hope all summer is what really pushed me away. Not worth the wait.

I would be okay with the headers never being released just to spite people like you

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

Then everyone comes to defend the Borla saying it produces the same numbers that other headers do, but looks like crap. There's actually a lot more to headers than just bending a few pipes and slapping a collector on it then calling it a day. It's all about the profit for them and how they can lower costs to create them in mass.

Some of the early collector research on JDL's end was very interesting. A lot of the early R&D Nameless did showed how many different revisions they did of shaping and sizing the pipes. Nameless and JDL while quite a bit more expensive, you're paying for researched products, tested and proven, revised even with issues like the skid plate rattling and flex joint rattling JDL saw (which they have gone back and fixed everything, and made sure early adopters were taken care of with new revisions). Nameless had their own set of issues with size and I'm sure most want a full OEM plug and play header with no shroud massacring. I am glad they found a solution and this header is going to impress everyone. Just knowing the Nameless guys, if this thing produced crap numbers, it wouldn't be sold.

So to those that say, "Oh this header is overpriced, it's the same thing as X, etc etc" you're wrong. Look at the big picture and see why it costs that much. Other companies I can't go find any intriguing R&D or any background on something like an HKS header. P&L and a few companies like that create a great product as well and interact with their customers.

This i give mad props to what ever company that goes into such amount of research, but not given a damn about deadlines and throwing dates around sucks too.

A headers that people seem to never discuss is the HKS, but that too shows amazing gains and numbers, and have good quality

[StormTrooper]

The problem I have with the hks header is the price coupled with almost no low end and small mid range gains... The top end is very nice but I want a more linear curve if possible.

Also I've never been impressed with the cat backs they make...makes me doubt the quality of the header.

[akyp]

I'm contemplating to buy the HKS EL header w/ cat. Where I am I can probably get one at a reasonable price. My concerns are 1) no ceramic coating (I don't like thermal bandages) and 2) no flexi-joints (potential cracking?).

[regal]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

Other companies I can't go find any intriguing R&D or any background on something like an HKS header. P&L and a few companies like that create a great product as well and interact with their customers.

HKS had an FA20 and was developing their header before the GT-86 was even released. I would not be surprised if they are setup with the same vendor's software design and optimization packages that the OEM's use. In other words they don't need a ridiculous 2 years of trial and error. I think the truth is a better header just isn't possible for this engine.

I pretty much lost all respect for nameless with the R&T article. A good company doesn't send a half-ass'd product to an international magazine to be reviewed, they say no we can't meet your time frame.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by regal

HKS had an FA20 and was developing their header before the GT-86 was even released. I would not be surprised if they are setup with the same vendor's software design and optimization packages that the OEM's use. In other words they don't need a ridiculous 2 years of trial and error. I think the truth is a better header just isn't possible for this engine.

I pretty much lost all respect for nameless with the R&T article. A good company doesn't send a half-ass'd product to an international magazine to be reviewed, they say no we can't meet your time frame.

How can you even say that when I would say almost every decent header like revworks, FA20Club,P&L, JDL, hell even the UEL Borla makes decent tq and HP gains and not to mention removes the dip completely from the car.

[wootwoot]

The fa20club and P&L headers are turbo manifolds that have been converted to a NA manifold. I can't help but think they are leaving power on the table with that approach.

[StormTrooper]

Originally Posted by akyp

I'm contemplating to buy the HKS EL header w/ cat. Where I am I can probably get one at a reasonable price. My concerns are 1) no ceramic coating (I don't like thermal bandages) and 2) no flexi-joints (potential cracking?).

Most parts don't come coated, you need to find a shop to get that done.

I'd see if you can't find the gauge of steel and type...might be thick enough to not need a flex joint.

[FR-Sizzle]

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

This i give mad props to what ever company that goes into such amount of research, but not given a damn about deadlines and throwing dates around sucks too.

A headers that people seem to never discuss is the HKS, but that too shows amazing gains and numbers, and have good quality

HKS headers are beautiful.

Originally Posted by StormTrooper

The problem I have with the hks header is the price coupled with almost no low end and small mid range gains... The top end is very nice but I want a more linear curve if possible.

Also I've never been impressed with the cat backs they make...makes me doubt the quality of the header.

Have you not seen Drift-Offices recent tune for a customer who purchased the HKS EL headers? They had impressive gains all through out the dyno..

[FR-Sizzle]

Originally Posted by campy

Jesus christ man they pushed the release date on a header, they didn't shoot your dog.

In a year or 2, people won't remember that this header took forever to come out. Nameless had to choose between spending a lot of time engineering a good product or just rushing out yet another part for this car that can't deliver on it's promised gains.

I think their biggest fault here was posting about it before they had a final design.

I have no problem with companies pushign release dates but saying it will be out soon 4-4months ago is taking it too far. It seems like they knew it was going to take this long and just kept saying soon to not get people mad or switch to another company.

Think of it. If they keep saying it will be out soon and a couple months go by already the people who have been patiently waiting ready to buy it will probably think they already waited this long so why not wait a lil longer? In reality people just got fed up with it. They could of said 4-5 months from now and that could of easily done the same thing and pushed people away. They knew what they were dealing with by pushing the release date back and probably just kept saying soon to retain more business for when the headers do become released. Just my opinion but I am sure they do care losing business to other companies if they take too long and that would of been the best route to go by telling people it will be out soon instead of putting down a 6 month ETA.

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Ehh.. I have a stock dyno of my car. Most people here do, you see, when you know you will mod your car you do it at the very start. All dynos will have different numbers than each other, but if you get a true baseline you can compare gains, and that is the key.

How will you know if that part actually gained power without something to compare it to. It's called establishing a control value and it's done in science classes everywhere across the world every day.

No point in doing a baseline then having it dyno'd again when you have all your mods done in the future in different conditions. Stock numbers on different dyno's all have been in the same ballpark and when you dyno it again with all the mods the conditions wont be the same so it wont even matter IMO. If you just had one mod like an intake or exhaust then that is different and of course you would want a baseline done but if you have a lot of mods done then you will generally have a good idea of how well those mods are working together. In the end people look at the end result of all the mods dyno'd together not what you started with.

Most people want to achieve 200 whp and that is a great way to gauge your cars performance by seeing how close you are to 200 whp as most people with basic I/H/E + tune get 180-195 with 91-93 octane. Our cars being dyno'd and getting anywhere near the goal of 200 whp will tell you the combination of mods you have are good. If you have I/H/E + tune and getting near stock numbers your doing it wrong and probably went with knock off parts by @vividracing or agency power that had no R&D done.

If you have a bunch of mods like basic bolt ons and a tune you will have enough of a gain/difference from the stock ball park numbers to get a general idea of what your car got. You can get a good estimate by comparing it to the stock numbers that our cars get by +/- 5-10 WHP since that is generally what our cars differ by on dyno's. Most cars hit 160-175 from what I noticed based on the dynos. On mustang dynos it seems like its 130-140~ish. IMO you shouldnt even dyno your car until you have the basic bolt ons and tune done first. Then as you get things like Cams or decide to go F/I if you got a modular header you can dyno it again when you get those mods that get good gains. Back then thats what people did. Seems like people nowdays are dynoing every single time they get a part which is a waste of money and just retarded.

If you do care so much about stock numbers on a dyno then get a tune first from someone local who knows the FR-S/BRZ. If you dont have anyone nearby then go somewhere that does. Luckily I now live 2 hours from Evasive and if I ever wanted to get a custom tune they would be the first shop I go to to get it done. That way anyone who wants can get those stock dyno numbers if it matters so much included with the cost of a tune. Tunes should always be the first thing done IMO. Bolt ons are useless without them IMO. The tune just puts everything together.

[regal]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

How can you even say that when I would say almost every decent header like revworks, FA20Club,P&L, JDL, hell even the UEL Borla makes decent tq and HP gains and not to mention removes the dip completely from the car.

That's because the biggest thing those headers are doing is removing the disgusting choking OE manifold cat, this allows a much better approach to tuning these cars.

The tune is so important to any headers performance that HKS sells their header with a flash device in Japan.

Point is simply that I don't see Nameless breaking any new ground especially if they are using Viscoti for their tuning, that's a big red flag.

I think I'm going with whichever header Vishu is basing his stage2 tune on, he said it was a 4-2-1 EL.

You don't hear much about the HKS headers on this forum because they aren't shipping but a handful to the USA and they sell out, no need to advertise yet.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by regal

HKS had an FA20 and was developing their header before the GT-86 was even released. I would not be surprised if they are setup with the same vendor's software design and optimization packages that the OEM's use. In other words they don't need a ridiculous 2 years of trial and error. I think the truth is a better header just isn't possible for this engine.

I pretty much lost all respect for nameless with the R&T article. A good company doesn't send a half-ass'd product to an international magazine to be reviewed, they say no we can't meet your time frame.

Not to mention the tune was crap included with it. That article was awful and they're a bunch of idiots. If you're basing Nameless off one article and not owning any of their parts and PROPERLY TUNING the car, then you don't really know what you're talking about and neither does R&T. Every header is shit without a good tune.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by FR-Sizzle

I have no problem with companies pushign release dates but saying it will be out soon 4-4months ago is taking it too far. It seems like they knew it was going to take this long and just kept saying soon to not get people mad or switch to another company.

Think of it. If they keep saying it will be out soon and a couple months go by already the people who have been patiently waiting ready to buy it will probably think they already waited this long so why not wait a lil longer? In reality people just got fed up with it. They could of said 4-5 months from now and that could of easily done the same thing and pushed people away. They knew what they were dealing with by pushing the release date back and probably just kept saying soon to retain more business for when the headers do become released. Just my opinion but I am sure they do care losing business to other companies if they take too long and that would of been the best route to go by telling people it will be out soon instead of putting down a 6 month ETA.



No point in doing a baseline then having it dyno'd again when you have all your mods done in the future in different conditions. Stock numbers on different dyno's all have been in the same ballpark and when you dyno it again with all the mods the conditions wont be the same so it wont even matter IMO. If you just had one mod like an intake or exhaust then that is different and of course you would want a baseline done but if you have a lot of mods done then you will generally have a good idea of how well those mods are working together. In the end people look at the end result of all the mods dyno'd together not what you started with.

Most people want to achieve 200 whp and that is a great way to gauge your cars performance by seeing how close you are to 200 whp as most people with basic I/H/E + tune get 180-195 with 91-93 octane. Our cars being dyno'd and getting anywhere near the goal of 200 whp will tell you the combination of mods you have are good. If you have I/H/E + tune and getting near stock numbers your doing it wrong and probably went with knock off parts by @vividracing or agency power that had no R&D done.

If you have a bunch of mods like basic bolt ons and a tune you will have enough of a gain/difference from the stock ball park numbers to get a general idea of what your car got. You can get a good estimate by comparing it to the stock numbers that our cars get by +/- 5-10 WHP since that is generally what our cars differ by on dyno's. Most cars hit 160-175 from what I noticed based on the dynos. On mustang dynos it seems like its 130-140~ish. IMO you shouldnt even dyno your car until you have the basic bolt ons and tune done first. Then as you get things like Cams or decide to go F/I if you got a modular header you can dyno it again when you get those mods that get good gains. Back then thats what people did. Seems like people nowdays are dynoing every single time they get a part which is a waste of money and just retarded.

If you do care so much about stock numbers on a dyno then get a tune first from someone local who knows the FR-S/BRZ. If you dont have anyone nearby then go somewhere that does. Luckily I now live 2 hours from Evasive and if I ever wanted to get a custom tune they would be the first shop I go to to get it done. That way anyone who wants can get those stock dyno numbers if it matters so much included with the cost of a tune. Tunes should always be the first thing done IMO. Bolt ons are useless without them IMO. The tune just puts everything together.

I don't know if you have ever worked in a production environment, but it's very easy for an unforeseen problem/design flaw (hell, even a design improvement that my reveal other issues) to come up and drastically change the time frame you were hoping for. I'm sure they want to have a finished product just as much as the potential customers do.